MacBook Pro with PROLED XDR Display and Touch
apple.com446 points by etothet 6 hours ago
446 points by etothet 6 hours ago
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/10/apple-unveils-groundb...
Touch-screen Macs is kind of a terrible development for anyone who loves the Mac. It's not just a harmless feature that you can ignore if you don't want it, because it's customer-facing and will now generate complaints and bugs from people who do use it. Those people will complain (rightly) that macOS UI widgets are too small to accurately manipulate with your fingers (they are indeed too small) and don't make sense with a touch screen (they don't make sense). That means Apple will begin imposing all sorts of UI dreck on all of us, whether we want to use our screens as touch surfaces or not. This is basically what happened with Microsoft - Windows Vista and 7 were installed in plenty of laptops with touchscreens, and customers would complain about not being able to maximize windows without closing them, not being able to open menus without touching toolbar buttons, etc. Eventually Microsoft listened to them and we got Windows 8. Now this is the beginning of the same process for macOS. I would argue that once the dust settled post-Windows 8 with Windows 10 a full decade ago, the touch screen has been the opposite of what you’ve described for Windows systems. It absolutely is a harmless feature that you can ignore. There’s no reason not to have one. Same goes for Linux. My CachyOS install on my Framework 13 Pro has a touch screen. There’s literally no downside for me having it. I don’t have to use it if I don’t want to. But if I want to scroll a website or scrub a video the option is there. I don't think you can say that. Windows 10+ has a tablet mode that is completely detached from desktop mode, and it's a global toggle. Switching on tablet mode brings full-screen, upscaled, simplified explorer and settings, and switches off the classic desktop launcher with paper bin, shortcuts, etc. in favor of a larger "Start"-type menu launcher. What deeper and experimental integration there was in Windows 8 had just been removed as it became clear MS couldn't quite sell into the iPad/Android tablet market or compete in terms of power management. After stripping most of Windows 8 innovations, what remains is a touch keyboard, touch mouse emulation, and a few affordances in explorer to make tablets not outright terrible, with the target audience education and mbas interested in mobile powerpoint and web/mail. The obvious downside is that all the UI elements are unnecessarily big for all the people not using touch. Not anymore, a lot of apps (from browsers to the system UI) adapt to whether you have a touch screen and whether you use it. For example, Windows Explorer and Edge (and Chrome) still use (relatively-)compact widgets on touchscreen-less computers. unless i misunderstand the implication as to their behavior on touchscreenful computers, this would seem to poorly address the concern upthread of explicitly expecting the touchscreen hardware, and thus the concomitant software annoyances, to become effectively unavoidable > It absolutely is a harmless feature that you can ignore. There’s no reason not to have one what i've learning developing and creating products over the years is that harmless features tend to be the ones that cause the most problems. for ex, now you have to add touchscreen code to the OS vs previously not having it at all. and this code or feature we will support for the rest of the lifetime of that product. I turn it off in the bios. 1. Takes extra battery
2. I’m not touching my screen regardless. It gets dirty enough My last three or four laptops, which never even booted Windows, have had disabled touchscreens I agree. KDE is by far the best desktop environment for Linux laptops with touchscreens. I was expecting there to be more like a ‘studio mode’ where you can fold it over to make it a screen interface that has some kind of bigger iPad style Ui. Where you could also use a stylus. Basically a product for the people currently carrying around a MacBook Pro and an iPad Pro. Just touch on a laptop screen makes no sense. I’ve never felt the need to do this. 100% agree
We should assume that new engineering leadership that came - it was too late.
Let’s pray that MacBook pro team will leave apple sooner or later to build alternative laptop.
This touchscreen seems to be bifurcation point with no return. I hope we also get alternative for M-class cpu, this might be the biggest dealbreaker Maybe it comes and goes like the Touch Bar (yeah I know, quite unlikely, but one can dream) ;) I have a MBP M1 which has been my main laptop since it came out. I never really understood why so many people complained about the Touch Bar. In fact, I will kind of miss the Touch Bar when I eventually replace the MBP M1 with something else a few more years down the line. The main complaint was not about the touchbar itself, but about removal of F-keys to accommodate it. It not only removed the F-keys, but it was not as responsive as a keyboard and a misplaced finger did something you may not want. Personally I HATED the thing. I don't think it's quite that bad, but I’m already in the habit of swatting the hands of people who point too closely at things on my laptop screen with their greasy fingers. gtfo Judging by the Apple marketing page, touch is used for (1) scroll; (2) zoom; (3) draw. I hope that’s all the ways touch can be used. It’s a bad idea to expect touch to be used instead of the cursor to click on buttons. I've been an Apple die hard ever since the OG iMac (still love those things). Never before have I so strongly felt the pull to Linux. I think this can easily be seen in the introduction of windows into iPad OS. I hate when the wrong motion creates a window from what I was working with. And this is on the 11" pro. Introducing features nobody asked for with clever bs gestures, then forcing the user to undo their effect using obscure keyboard sequences or settings one has to lookup on the web is absolutely terrible UI, and something that would've never passed under Jobs' reign. It's not just the iPad windows misfeature, Mac OS' full screen mode has that problem as well. Whoever is responsible for that should seriously consider their career choices. There are PLENTY ergonomic problems to take care of, such as the error-prone keyboard entry on iOS, the Finder not showing full paths in Info details, broken window focus management (clicking a window tops ALL windows of the app), Spotlight, Expose refactored into uselessness (is it even there still?), the list goes on. You can turn that off, by the way. Settings -> Multitasking and Gestures -> select Full Screen Apps. Just turns all that off. I honestly don't mind it on my Air but on the Mini is just fucking useless as a feature so I know this lol My work laptop has a touch screen, I only ever remember about that when it gets too dusty and I start to wipe it. I mean, if this is what you've been waiting for forever and it changes your life for the better, then congrats. But I think this will wind up being a huge net-negative for most Mac users as macOS is made to look and feel more and more like iPadOS. And Mac OS is built adjacent to iOS which shares most themes and design principles. The ecosystem is already designed around touch. ecosystem != UI Buttons sized to be hit by your physical thumb and buttons sized to be hit by a tiny high-precision cursor are very different things. I am sitting on a macbook pro with the vertical tab pane open in chrome, with 12 tabs. The outer joint of my thumb covers the entire list, in both width and height. A touch-friendly version of that would be humongous in comparison. Perhaps it is with a heavy dose of copium that I say: I hope the extremely tentative development and release of this product (after having been on the record as fervently against touchscreen laptops), along with the eye-watering price point indicates that this isn't being viewed as the future of the MacOS experience. I hope this remains framed as a true pro-focused experience that unlocks specific apps without greatly impacting the central MacOS design philosophy. > along with the eye-watering price point I mean the entry level price for this is $2,899, "only" $400 more than the comparable non-touch MBP. I agree with the doomerism, and I expect the end goal would be merging MacOS UI with iPadOS. so the Mac will be an iPad with a keyboard. Clumsy , low-resolution controls that depend on clumsy touch experiences instead of lightning fast keyboard shortcuts. The end result will be akin to taking keyboards away from Platinum league top tier Korean pro RTS players. 500+ operations per minute down to 10 It’s funny how disconnected macOS users are from reality when it comes to laptop touch screens. That just hasn’t happened with Windows touch screens. Yes, Microsoft did fuck around and find out with Windows 8, but by the time Windows 10 landed an entire decade ago, this whole issue has been completely settled. That’s right, your Windows/Linux user friends have been using touchscreens (or no touch screens) without issue for a decade. No UX sky has fallen in this regard. There’s absolutely zero downside to having a touch screen on Windows and you also absolutely don’t need a touch screen to use it. I’m using a touch screen on my Linux laptop right now and it’s great. I don’t have to use it. The screen being touch didn’t cost me extra money. It’s just there if I want it. The Apple camp seems to believe that every technology included with a product must have some kind of intentional holistic value. Apple removed the USB-A port because USB-C is the future. Apple removed the escape key and the function keys because the Touch Bar would replace it. But the truth of the matter is, sometimes the option to just include both isn’t some kind of magical barrier that Apple can’t do. You go out and buy a ThinkPad X9 15p and it has 3x thunderbolt, HDMI, SD card, and USB-A. Why doesn’t a MacBook Pro include USB-A? Well, remember, USB-A is the past! It’s legacy! But the thing about it being unnecessary doesn’t change the fact that it remains trivially expensive to include, and it comes in handy for a bunch of peripherals that aren’t even that old. So, I think this is why everyone assumes that Apple is going to destroy the OS because of some new thing they add to the hardware. Because the Apple cult is all about the mythical finely crafted experience. If you don’t do things the Apple way you’re holding it wrong. but in Microsoft/Linux-land, they don’t really care. Linux is fully free, and Microsoft knows their demographic net is too wide and their marketshare is too high that they can’t dictate form factor, choice of peripherals, etc. Their whole philosophy is that Windows is suitable for anything and everything. The Apple culture can’t contemplate a technology company just including an extra option for users with no specific intended use case. PC manufacturers include a touch screen because, screw it, it only costs a few cents extra and maybe someone might like it, software integration be damned/that’s not our problem. One difference is that Apple has always considered it their job and divine right to tell you how to use your computer, where Windows a d Linux never have. the concern rests on the likely trajectory for the mac laptop. Windows laptops never expected tough screen adoption to hit 90% and still touch degraded the experience. The worry here is that with Apple's e2e design control over the Mac, that this pivot will mean our MacOS UX will be removed in lieu of a more iPad-like experience. Just look at other developer-friendly features like unlocked bootloaders, background jobs, unsigned software that Apple has removed from their hardware . So this is a big deal and significant. It's different than you running Linux on your Windows laptop because the touch experience there never had a chance to push out the traditional UX. Microsoft produces an OS. Linux is an OS. When a hardware partner of Microsoft wants to introduce touchscreen laptops Microsoft has to support them. Is it realistic that Microsoft tells them to pound sand and the partner ships the hardware with Linux? No. Whereas Apple is supposed to have an overarching design team. Someone that currently occupies the role Jony Ive occupied should have the power to tell the hardware team not to ship touchscreens in Macs. I disagree. One of the key differentiators is that technology is being introduced in the highest cost, highest capability sku in their product lineup. This laptop costs more than my first car, although I’m old :) What Microsoft introduced touch surfaces, they came out of the train wreck of Longhorn and they were under the belief that they could push windows down to phones. Reality was that they pushed touch surfaces in a barbell distribution… ultra high end and ultra low end. Mostly low end as screen costs were super high. With Apple, look at the pencil and the iPad. They’ve had a lot of fits and starts, but the Apple Pencil didn’t fundamentally change the iPad, but it did open the door for a very high value use cases for things like procreate. Probably not because at the end of the day the employees and engineers at Apple have to use the Mac and macOS to write software so there's a concrete floor that they can't break through in terms of usability. They may make some mistakes or something but the OS has basically been the same thing for like 20 years. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I Hackintoshed a 2-in-1 with a touch screen way back in 2018. Wrote about it in a comically long how-to piece about how to put it together. https://www.vice.com/en/article/how-to-make-a-hackintosh-lap... It was fine then, it will be fine now. This is a non-issue. Everyone's focused on the touchscreen, but I'm seriously impressed how they managed to cut down the weight. * For the 14-inch: 3.5 lb (1.59 kg) -> 3.0 lb (1.36 kg) * For the 16-inch: 4.7 lb (2.13 kg) -> 4.0 lb (1.81 kg) About 15% lighter on both models. Switching from LCD to OLED saves weight because the screen does not need a backlight and has fewer layers. They also made the laptop thinner by nearly 1 mm. But that's not enough to push the weight down by 300 grams. They must have redesigned internal components to cut weight as well. There must have been a dedicated effort to reduce weight. Kudos to the MacBook Pro team! They've reduced size in every dimension, here's the 14 inch size from the specs for example: Oled: How do they compare to the 13/15/16” MBPs from 2016-2020 era (Intel CPUs and 4 USB-C ports)? The 2020 Touch Bar 13" was 1.56cm x 30.4 cm x 21.2cm and 1.4kg, so this is the same weight, and thinner while having a slightly bigger footprint. I would have loved to get the decrease in weight, but I bought my Macbook Pro 128 GB in March and the equivalent is now 50% more expensive, from 5000 to 7500. The memory price skyrocketing is so bad but I don't know if it will ever get better or if these prices are the best we will ever see again. Those are completely disjointed things though, and one of them (price of RAM) is currently very-much outside Apple's control. IF memory prices drop, apple product prices will likely drop. And it will stay lighter. Apple never drops prices, never. It will go straight into their margin. I have an M1 Max but I am not paying 50% more than a few months ago to upgrade. I have bought Apple laptops since 2004 but I can’t justify the current extortionate pricing, so I’ll sit it out (permanently if need be). The pricing isn’t extortionate. It’s literally just them having to pass on the insane price of RAM (itself priced due to the massive demand and supply shortage). And you’re right that Apple is hesitant to change prices on models. But that cuts both ways. Apple notably held off of bumping prices across their product line for a considerable amount of time, very plausibly eating the cost of RAM price increases. It would definitely be atypical but given the unique and extreme nature of the current situation, I wouldn’t be shocked if they cut prices somewhat once the RAM situation relaxes. Right up to the launch of the Apple Silicon Mac Pro in mid 2023, Apple would still happily charge you early 2019 prices for the 2019 Xeon processors in the previous edition, 2019 prices for memory and flash (I ordered mine with 32 and used OWC to go to 192GB, because for the exact same chips, spec, timings, OWC wanted $1,050 for 192GB, and Apple wanted $3,000 for 160GB, i.e. minus the 32GB already rolled into the price. Similar $1K to $3K margin for 8TB of SSD - I bought a PCIe card with 4x2TB Samsung Pro drives). > Apple never drops prices, never. The first gen apple TVs were $300. The second gen was $99. The first and second 4k gen were $179. The third gen was $129. They might not drop prices on existing models, but they have definitely dropped prices on new versions of product lines. Ironic that you chose the Apple TV. There's a bit of nuance, and the 3rd gen was $149, not $129 (the latter is Wifi only, when the first two were Wifi+Ethernet). They then bumped UP the 3rd gen: $249 (+$100) and $199 (+$70). And the 4th gen has only one option, at $299. So we've not only "not dropped" prices on the 4K Apple TV, but they've gone up forty per cent. They do drop prices from time to time, they just don’t do the live market pricing Dell and Lenovo do where it can change day to day. I hear you though on the cost. The Mac Mini was a killer deal a year ago, especially if you could get it on sale for <$500. Not today though. Spoken like someone who’s not tried to buy any computer anywhere in the last year. All the pricing is bad everywhere. Apple knows how much of a premium they can charge vs other manufacturers, if everyone else starts dropping they will as well. Everyone who still holds on their M1's are now permanent underclass. You will never be able to afford new MacBook. This makes no sense. What makes the owner of a 6 year old laptop less able to afford a new MacBook than the owner of a 2 or 3 or 4 year old laptop? If anything, the longer you hold your laptop, the more you amortize the cost, and can more easily afford the next one. Everyone who profited from AI boom has upgraded their macbooks already. The rest can go back to putting fries in the bag. Man, I wouldn't upgrade my M1 Air to the latest Air for free, it feels as fast as the day I got it, and upgrading's a huge chore. My work machine went from an M1 with 32GB to an M4 with 24GB and it definitely wasn't worth the time to upgrade. I have an M1 Max MBP (16", 64GB, 4TB) and I see no need to upgrade. I got it when the M3 came out so I saved about $2,000. I'm in that class.
My iPhone has more power than my MacBook it seems. But I do love the m1 still for what it can do. I just bought a portable keyboard for my iPhone - coupled with a SSH client, its quite a useful combo these days. I had to prove the OP wrong though; my M1 Max's keyboard died this year, and I had to upgrade to the M5 max this season, after the hikes. I kissed 9k EUR goodbye for something not much better functionally than the M1 Max it replaced, bought for 3.4k Canadian dollars in the wonderful 2021 (that was barely over 3200 EUR back then). 2019, 13" MacBook only weighed 3.02 lbs https://support.apple.com/en-us/111945 EDIT: Yes, 13" ≈ 14" The form factor of this new 14" PROLED and the old 2019 13" is nearly the same (due to smaller bezels) It also thermally throttled like hell, was much thinner, and had much reduced IO. What's impressive is keeping the same form factor and IO selection, and still getting that weight reduction. Assuming you are talking about the 4-port version of the 2019 Intel Pro model, the 2019 had more I/O than the next gen 14-inch, specifically because the 4th port on the 14-inch got turned into a dumb HDMI port that can only do HDMI out, not HDMI/DP/USB/Thunderbolt like an actual Thunderbolt port can. It is absolutely a reduction in total I/O capabilities, changes in abilities from Thunderbolt 3 to 4 notwithstanding. I would rather have 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports than 3 Thunderbolt 4 ports, an SD card slot I won't use, and 1 HDMI port that can only be used for HDMI instead of whatever the hell I need it to be another Thunderbolt port can be. I would rather have a Framework 13 Pro where I could choose 4 ports of my choosing and swap them out at will. (That’s my current machine, sold my M2 MacBook Pro for it). I would rather have a ThinkPad X9 15p Aura Edition, which has 3x thunderbolt, SD Card, HDMI, and USB-A, all at the same time with no dongle. I love the Framework laptops in every other respect, but I just don't get the "swappable port" concept. Those are still dongles; they're just special dongles that can only be used on one brand of machine and which require allocating internal space away from battery, on a machine whose power-hungry OSes can't spare a single watt-hour. Welcome to dongleville, population: you. Exactly. I'm not happy about being in Dongleville. It sucks shit here. I have boxes of dongles. They get tangled on my desk with is stupid messy with dongles. Stupid things. But I am here. And everyone else seems really happy about Dongleville and I can't change the fact that I need dongles, so we might as well just embrace it. Because the Dongle-heads do have one thing right, one port that can be turned into lots of other kinds of ports with a dongle is more versatile than a port that can only be a video out, especially when the device doesn't have a ton of room for lots of ports. Fujitsu U939 13" is lighter than 1kg, has a charger port, 2 USB-C, 2 USB-3, RJ45 (folded), HDMI, Smartcart, SD card, SIM Card, Pen, Mouspad with real buttons, keyboard with normal cursor buttons and separate PgUp and PgDown buttons. My t480s is also very light as is the framework 13. I was actually surprised how heavy the m1 pro was when i got it, much heavier than the intel 13 before it, but more like the macbook from 2012. 13" != 14" That is the screen size. I think the 14 inch body is probably close to the same size as the 13 inch. Maybe I am wrong. Definitely appreciated. The increased weight is the one downside of my M1 laptop over my earlier 2015 Macbook. Sounds like maybe the Macbook Air could become the original 12 inch Macbook(2015) weight eventually. They might even re-introduce a 12 inch model. Imagine that! Nice, but they're merely fixing a regression ;)
Now if they could do the same with the iPhone instead of introducing more Bricky McBrick editions… To put in a perspective it’s the weight of a new iPhone duo. That's crazy. It sounds crazy because it's not true; the Duo weighs 8.96oz, or 254g, a far cry from the MacBook weights. The delta is 300g, which is close(ish) to 254g. But yes, the laptops are heavier than the phones. the new macbook weights one Iphone Duo less than the old macbooks. thank god! at work many people intentionally choose the 14" just because of weight. Once you add the charger in, the 16" is very noticeable in a bag and makes you pack a little differently for flights. Yep. I got a 15" MacBook Air as a replacement because I still wanted portability but reduce the weight. I have 2 M1 Pro MBP (one work, one personal) and the added weight is noticeable at conferences... They might have changed the internal fan layout. If you look it AR mode, you can look underneath the display , there’s usually two fan exhausts there, this one has only one But I also only have an m1 16” so it may not be a brand new change 13-inch M1 MacBook Air: 2.8 pounds (1.29 kg) 13-inch M5 MacBook Air: 2.7 pounds (1.23 kg) https://support.apple.com/en-us/126320 Macbook airs are lighter because they are smaller and lack fans (and maybe for other reasons too) so it is not comparable, but it is one of the reasons I like fanless laptops (whatever cuts a bit the weight for mobility is welcome). The best thing about OLED is not having disgusting amounts of blooming[0] and purple-pink edge fraying. It's so bad that the first time I used my M series I thought I needed to RMA it because the display must be broken it it looks this bad, right? Nope. Thats a side effect of the 1000+ dimming zones no? I snagged this ASUS ProArt display that was Professional Grade on eBay and among its many flaws is that its 1000+ dimming zones result in blooming whenever you have bright items on top of a complete black background. Makes it terrible for horror movies. :/ Yes. What I've never understood is why Apple, when they looked at it in prototype, didn't just adapt a color profile that latched black a few values higher (basically the opposite of crushing blacks). It would have meant the display would have had slightly worse blacks, but at least they would have been uniform. If Jobs had seen this display he would have thrown the device, and perhaps the designer, straight out of a window. I had the same experience but to be fair, you only notice this in complete dark rooms. Which is a fringe scenario. You know what you also only notice in very dark rooms? Super high contrast ratios. So the feature fails in the one situation in which it could make a positive contribution. In practice you will hardly ever notice this. Especially not during normal use. Maybe only during videos. TBH this is one of the things that will be a clear downgrade imo. Weight reductions and thinness are not free. The Pro and Max chip version are already over powered for the cooling system the current macbook pros have. And now they are further cutting into the laptop... The display change itself likely accounts for some of the thickness and weight reduction. The mini-LED backlight grid on the previous displays wasn't nearly as thin or light as an OLED panel. I hope so. I just see Apple going down the same dark path they used to before the M series laptops. I heard that was a result of them designing for certain thermal envelopes ahead of time and Intel then delivering chips that didn't meet the specs they were promised. Not sure is this is what happened though so take with a grain of salt. If this was the case, one the one hand they should be criticized for releasing such bad laptops on the market but if they had already decided on developing their own silicon then maybe it made sense to just accept that some generations of Macbook were going to have thermal issues and focus all efforts on the future. That would be excusable for a generation of macbooks. Not over multiple generations. Correct me if I am wrong but the heat problems were essentially Intel chips in the mid to late 2010s right? They are all essentially the same chip design with small window dressing added each year. The underlying problem is the same. Old design that suffered from Intel's issues in their fabs. Yes, but there was ample time for Apple to re-design the thermal system of their macbooks. Instead they kept releasing extremely thermally limited devices year after year. By that time they had clearly made the decision to invest in their own CPUs and platform architecture.
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Ye Olde: Height: 1.50 cm (0.59 inch)
Width: 31.08 cm (12.24 inches)
Depth: 21.63 cm (8.52 inches)
Weight (M5 Pro): 1.38 kg (3.0 pounds)
Weight (M5 Max): 1.40 kg (3.1 pounds)
Height: 1.55 cm (0.61 inch)
Width: 31.26 cm (12.31 inches)
Depth: 22.12 cm (8.71 inches)
Weight (M6): 1.55 kg (3.4 pounds)
Weight (M5 Pro): 1.60 kg (3.5 pounds)
Weight (M5 Max): 1.62 kg (3.6 pounds)
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PROLED: 0.59" x 12.24" x 8.5"
2019: 0.59" x 11.97" x 8.36"
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