ChatGPT now knows what you do on other websites via ad collector
buchodi.com433 points by lmbbuchodi 6 hours ago
433 points by lmbbuchodi 6 hours ago
I noticed that. I'm getting ads now based on conversations. I'm okay with it. I don't mind relevant ads.
I am once again happy that the EU is fighting practices like these via legislation.
Some outcomes can be annoying, but the net result is still positive, for the consumers and their data privacy at least.
> Some outcomes can be annoying
I'd classify mandatory encryption backdoors as an industry crisis rather than an annoyance.
Which has nothing to do with the stalking of the adtech industry, unless you are suggesting that the EU might sell access to the keys to the likes of OpenAI?
[though you are not wrong that encryption backdoors are a backwards step on individuals rights to privacy]
> I am once again happy that the EU is fighting practices like these via legislation.
As long as you manage to navigate all the dark patterns and not accidentally give your "informed consent".
Malicious compliance (or as it more usually is malicious noncompliance that has not been sufficiently punished so the slimy buggers feel free to continue) is something you should blame the stalkers of adtech for, more than the EU. The legislators could perhaps have made the definitions less wavy, and been harder with enforcement, but that doesn't make it all their fault.
These problems were quite widely foreseen during the legislative process, and partly had already been exhibited by the earlier ePrivacy directive. I don't know whether it matters who's to blame, but my trust in EU being very effective in these fights in the future either is not very high.
And the sane world is fighting the EU BS with geo blocking.
Just set up your user agent to work as you wish, isn't that simpler than have unelected, technologic dumb bureaucrats writing laws that are complex and don't solve the issue?
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> The outcome is that very little serious technology or influential companies come out of Europe. And salaries for things like engineer are about a third of that in the US.
So your argument is abusive practices are required for the creation of influential companies, serious technology, and high paying salaries?
No but overly burdensome regulatory bodies that are concerned about such things like how the top of my bottle cap functions and how low i set my ac temp leads to an incredibly hostile business environment and stagnant culture.
But like I said, nice place to visit for the time being.
> nice place to visit for the time being.
Yes, because it’s a place where culture matters and where trying to change everything as fast as possible for unknown reason and handing out unlimited power to corps to e.g. level half the country to build DCs is not seen as a good outcome. The specific mindset you complain about is what makes those place nice.
The obsession with ACs in some places (or rather people I guess) is something I will never sympathize with. Just wear reasonable clothes for the weather, no need to cool down below 20° C. And yes, I'm going to die on that hill.
Sometimes the temperature is much higher than 20° C, and it is very hard to be comfortable or do productive work.
That's true, although having 19° inside when it's 30° outside is bad for several reasons. My office (in Europe) gets cooled down in summer to like 23°, and that's already inconvenient when wearing appropriate summer clothes. And no one is expected to wear formal clothing.
I never set my AC to lower than 25°C. Why would you need below 20°C? Is it something about having only a single unit for the hole house/office, where it's then uncomfortably freezing in one area, just to have a normal temperature in the distant areas? Crazy.
> Why would you need below 20°C?
For example because I literally can’t sleep well above 20°C.
175k ppl die each year in Europe due to heat death. But I guess if you ignore that being slightly warm is not a big deal
What a shitty hill to die on.
I don't know if this is a genetic thing, but as a scandinavian who wears shorts down to like 12C, I am unable to function in >30C humid weather. Anything more labour intensive than drinking sangria on ice is not getting done. This year we had up to 37C in Denmark. If you're able to tolerate heat well, I'm happy for you, but my sleep was ruined for months this summer. Not to mention the people who literally died.
I'm investigating my options for at least cooling down the bedroom at night, because I'm not going through this nonsense again. Plastic straws are banned now and we're sorting garbage in 42 different bins, so I'm thinking that about evens it out, environmentally.
I see the heat pump hype shaking my head thinking how people long ago use to build with mud and made walls 2-3 meter thick. It takes the entire winter/summer for the climate to get in.
The Amish hang wet bed sheets in front of the window (with a tob under it to recycle the water) not sure how well this works in the Netherlands with 95-99% humidity, it certainly wont raise humidity but evaporation might be shit.
Not every bathroom is fit for it but if there is no AC and things become unbearable I put the shower head upside down so that the ceiling and walls get wet and it rains everywhere. Then I daisy chain fans to "tunnel" the air into the bathroom. The temperature drops like a rock.
Not everyone can tolerate 20C, you know. I know people who freeze at anything below like 25C, but I myself have trouble not sweating my ass off above like 18C. I don't wear additional clothes in winter (though maybe that's simply because winter here hasn't actually reached below freezing in years).
> overly burdensome regulatory bodies that are concerned about such things like ... how low i set my ac temp leads to an incredibly hostile business environment and stagnant culture
Like the US of A?
Also various stars have introduced more bottle cap regulations. One such state is a hotbed for inflated software developer salaries.
You don't think all industrial countries have stuff like that? Do you really think the European economy is stifled by bottle caps being attached to their bottles by default? Even if it bothers you, it's a really weak attachment, you can just pull it off.
Beats companies and governments being openly hostile towards the people
You know, the thing that actually makes a country/society
Putting the needs of business over the needs of the people those businesses are actually supposed to serve is how you end up with America
> overly burdensome regulatory bodies that are concerned about such things like how the top of my bottle cap functions
Better than a government that fears the word gay
> and how low i set my ac temp leads to an incredibly hostile business environment and stagnant culture.
You are quite a cherrypicker, aren’t you?
How about the regulation to have USB-C as a standard or replaceable batteries.
Or one of my favorites, the ban of ingredients that cause cancer.
BTW ever heard of Frauenhofer IIS or ASML?
If it's any consolation, all other non-California regions in the world lack the privacy protections enjoyed in Switzerland and the EU, but they still don't produce many unicorn startups nor have fantastic salaries for coders.
> The outcome is that very little serious technology or influential companies come out of Europe. And salaries for things like engineer are about a third of that in the US.
Sure, but plenty of companies want to operate within the EU. While I feel any legislation will only affect their operations within the EU, having the infrastructure to operate under privacy laws there means it'll be easier if/when other jurisdictions follow suit
> But I'm happy EU does this stuff as well, as it's a really nice vacation spot
With no Flock cameras!
Unfortunately, most LLM companies always were naturally an intelligence operation on civilians, and determining if they are now state-backed seems like a irrelevant detail.
Privacy has been dead for some time now. The fact is most business people never figure out how they are exploited. The modern intelligence campaigns just made it economical to hit almost everyone regardless of scale... often under some silly pretense like terrorists wanting our underpants. =3
Are you equally happy that the EU is attempting to mandate backdoors into technological platforms and outlaw private encrypted communication?
Copypasting my reply to someone who made almost exactly the same point in a sibling comment earlier:
Which has nothing to do with the stalking of the adtech industry, unless you are suggesting that the EU might sell access to the keys to the likes of OpenAI [though you are not wrong that encryption backdoors are a backwards step on individuals rights to privacy]
Things could be worse. It could be like most of the US where there are both no (or at least far fewer) protections against invasive behaviour of private companies and the government actively trying to backdoor private comms.
I don't know if the destruction of many industries in the EU--including manufacturing--can be called an annoyance.
All the EU bureaucrats can do is regulate, that's why it's so difficult to do business in the EU and that's why there is so little innovation over here. If Microsoft and Apple were started in the EU they would've been shut down within a week because you can't operate from a garage.
I guess that every once in a while this might have a positive outcome for consumers, a broken clock is right twice a day.
I'm sure Microsoft and Apple could have been able to afford a cheap office given their parents' generous financing.
And, regarding the original topic, we wouldn't have many of these privacy issues if the US had not strategically failed to regulate its obnoxious tech monopolies
I don't see how that's relevant? Regulation might have limited some innovation in tech, but gdpr does not affect any of the dying industries. That's more from competition with china, companies with too much interest in giving payouts to shareholders than to innovate, and US financial industry buying most of the best players
https://www.pangram.com/history/c3ad864f-2a50-4785-a0ef-71f2...
why not use your own words? If you are gonna ai generate this blog, just post the prompts instead.
There's a certain irony in linking to someone else and then saying "use your own words". If we follow that, we get a pretty obvious answer: sometimes someone else can express it better and faster.
Most people do not, in fact, want to read raw prompts.
Are you referring to the Pangram link? I’d consider that akin to a reference supporting the comment’s point, not a substitute for the comment’s point.
> Most people do not, in fact, want to read raw prompts.
I wonder if this is really true, and if it will remain true for long. Have you observed someone read another person’s raw prompt? Or observed someone submit both their prompts and their LLM output for review?
Personally I’d be curious about the prompts for a lot of top HN articles which are LLM-generated. It would say a lot more about the human operator’s intent and thinking process compared to the LLM output.
A coworker who spoke English as a second language once screen shared their Claude session during a code review, and it was interesting that their prompts were all in their native language. The guy wasn’t writing an article, and I didn’t understand the prompt anyway, but I still found it interesting as a glimpse into how he uses LLMs.
For this particular article, if the prompt was initially a series of bullet points that wouldn’t be so bad. If there were multiple prompts spent editing and rearranging the article that would be an unusual work by pre-LLM standards. However I’d suggest that instead of dismissing the idea, we could embrace “raw prompts” as a kind of new medium, to cross the divide between pro-LLM and anti-LLM readers.
It’s misleading to post model output on a blog, especially when the about says
> This blog is where I write about what I find.
Why not simply include a disclaimer that it was AI model output not his own writing? Because humans don’t like AI writing and the article wouldn’t be featured on as many tech news sites. Hence the sin of omission, the choice to mislead.
Having an LLM generate major parts of text that you (whether explicitly or lying by omission) claim as yours is dishonest and plagiarism, and it baffles me that many people just don't seem to mind or see anything problematic about it.
How is this adding to the discussion? The post in itself is quite informative.
Do you constantly want to be reading ai-generated content on this site? If so, why not just stay on chatgpt.com and ask it to generate what hackernews.com would look like today? It's adding to the discussion because I feel like the author broke a social contract by probably putting less effort into writing this than I did reading it.
Why would you want n people to compute an AI prompt independently instead of reading the output once? And why would that be better?
At least criticise the article on merit and not some 'let me google that for you' high horse. If it's slop it's slop, but let the votes speak for that.
> OpenAI's ad collector at bzr.openai.com sets a cookie called __obi, scoped to .openai.com
This sentence is way too much detail and it's literally the first thing you read. I can pick apart most of the sentences in the article. Another one:
> Across 932 decoded sync tokens, 736 carried subject_type: account_user and 196 carried anonymous
This sentence is pointless. What matters to proving that "It works when you are logged out" is to show that the identifier is stable. Why does the reader care about the actual counts.
AI has a tendency to do this which makes AI generated text a lot harder to read. The raw prompts likely don't have the specific websites and cookie names because that's not relevant to the reader or writer for that matter - it's a footnote at best.
To me, this quote just about sums it up:
> The mechanism is standard adtech. What has no precedent is running it on an AI chat product.
As someone who has been well aware of this mechanism for quite some time, I still feel icky anytime I re-read the details of it.
What a time to be alive.
People think they're interacting with an "intelligence," when actually they're just getting a maximally optimized Weizenbaum feed. We're living through the sloppification of the human mind.
See e.g., https://www.science.org/content/article/ai-chatbots-are-beco...
Could you define (or link) to what "Weizenbaum feed" means/references? Too obscure for me but I'm interested. Thanks.
Likely a reference to ELIZA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
Are there really people that can't tell the difference between ELIZA and something that can solve open Millennium Prize Problems in math?
humorously, my regular iPhone on a residential home network failed the cloudflare AI bot detection and i can’t read that article
People don't believe me that Cloudflare blocks more humans than bots. They see in the dashboard "number of bots blocked" and it's like their brain turns off.
What's the old quote from WW2?
I couldn't help but notice how each successive headline reporting our glorious victories seemed to draw closer to Tokyo.
Well. I can't help but notice how each successive headline reporting how this "scam"/stochastic parrot/"scare quotes intelligence" seems to be solving more and more things that were but a few years ago widely regarded as being indicators of high intelligence.
Being highly convinving is one of the things on that list.
Nobody is denying that it's effective. They're denying intelligence
A programming contest has a problem where given N < 10000, do something hard like come up with the number of primes less than N
You can come up with all sorts of algorithms that do intelligent things. But the most effective solution is to use metaprogramming to make a massive switch statement that contains all the answers
Are they denying intelligence, or are they redefining it in such a way that only humans can be intelligent? Can you come up with a definition of intelligence that would apply to crows and ant colonies, which are obviously intelligent to some degree, but not the current generation of AI systems?
Nobody knows what intelligence is. We've recently discovered a lot of things that it isn't.
Intelligence is a word we invent to describe things we see in nature. We don't "discover" intelligence like it's some natural resource. To say we know nothing about it is also a bit strange. Cognitive science has been studying it for decades. Of course it's hard to give a precise definition, but it's related to capabilities like abstraction, reasoning, planning, problem solving, etc.
Why would a set of dictionary definitions not suffice?
Those are distillations of existing knowledge. They are necessarily behind the status quo. "You can't call this newfangled contraption a computer, because a computer is a person!"
> They are necessarily behind the status quo.
That seems like a really bizarre way to describe a tool that solved an open Millennium Prize Problem. They are, empirically and repeatedly, ahead of the status quo.
So if your argument depends on them being behind the status quo, reality has already disproven it multiple times over.
> Those are distillations of existing knowledge.
Definitions are "formal statements of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc" (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/definition)
> They are necessarily behind the status quo.
The existing state or condition would be what is written in the dictionary, not whatever personal definitions you've constructed.
> "You can't call this newfangled contraption a computer, because a computer is a person!"
Seems like a straw man. A computer is not a mammal, no matter how much you twist a set of definitions.