Can you reverse engineer an ASIC?

To be fair, the 6502 is very dense, and very hand optimized.

Modern systems tend to use "standard cells" for logic which is a lot more digestible.

Indeed, this is a problem for an energetic student who has free access to every tool in the Cadence, Synopsys, and Mentor portfolios: take the GDS-II layout, run it through extraction, generate a netlist, convert to higher-level blocks ("netlist-to-gate recovery"), translate to RTL HDL, then attempt to work out "what it does."

This is just a job posting in disguise for Jane Street: solve the puzzle, get a call from one of their recruiters.

It's even easier in this case because they've included the original verilog source ....

> He did that by connecting oscyloscops to all chip's outputs and started with applying random current on inputs

This is absolutely not how reverse engineering a digital logic ASIC works.

Either the story got embellished through retellings, or this person was a fantasist.

There are people who hack on GPUs but it’s done at the software level.

I did get a kick out of imagining a scene where someone is trying to connect an oscilloscope to a circuit board to reverse engineer the CPU opcodes. That’s like the CSI: Miami version of what this would look like.

You can't do that by applying random inputs to any single-chip GPU - it has far too much state. I can see that perhaps it worked on some of the early multi-chip cards - where one chip was a texture sampler, and so on.

You'll have more luck reverse engineering the software driver first. They're not hidden, you can just open the driver files in Ghidra, the almost-universal tool for open-sourcing proprietary code. Hidden opcodes can be discovered first by just trying all the opcodes you couldn't discover any other way. You only need to go to the physical level if they're really hidden.

There is absolutely no way that happened. 15 years ago, we're talking Fermi class GPUs and chips with hundreds of millions of bits of on-chip state and much more if you include the DRAM.

You can't tease out the right information by applying random inputs. Which input would you even use? The PCIe interface? You'd first "randomly" need to get past its complex training sequences...

Your postdoc probably wrote micro-benchmarks of some sort. That is a common technique.

“oscyloscops” is a way better spelling I gotta say.

Yes. There is exactly that, and we call it an "extraction" tool. It takes a GDS (text representation of shapes in the physical layout), and gives you back a "netlist" (text representation of components and connections in a circuit schematic).

Circuit designers use these tools basically daily for two reasons - the first is Layout Versus Schematic. We want to make sure that the physical layout matches the schematic, so the tool turns the layout GDS into a netlist and compares that to the netlist created from the schematic (basically a diff, but more complicated). The second is so we can run simulations that take into account the "parasitic" resistances and capacitances of the wires and metal shapes in the physical layout. It's basically the same procedure as LVS with an extra step that analyzes the metal shapes to determine said R's and C's.

Practically No, the stack-up of metal layers often hides the gate structures underneath, and the billions of process cells may not all be the same.

Theoretically Yes, as an ion-beam-mill and electron-microscope combination machine can slice up semiconductors layer-by-layer. Given these machines can often also give precise x-ray analysis material data, the exact makeup of the chip can be extracted by competitors given enough time. =3

From where do I know the name Dragon Sector and q3k? You aren't the ones who hacked the train DRM, are you? Or maybe active in the demo scene? Or maybe I'm just confusing you with TRSi?

I'm a chip designer, back in the early 90s I visited a small silicon house who were doing some work for us, their boardroom table had been taken over by a giant sized photomicrograph of IBM's VGA chip and they had a bunch of summer hire grad students tracing wiring and matching standard cells (easier back then because we only worked in 2 layers of metal).

They weren't trying to steal IBM's design, they already had one of their own, what they wanted to know was "is there any as yet unannounced functionality in the IBM VGA chip?" they didn't want to be caught out when some unknown registers popped up. Of course it turned out there was as yet unannounced functionality - but not by IBM's design, more because of the orthogonality of the design - MODE-X was discovered and became the basis for DOOM's speed, anyone who didn't support it lost out

They did give the chips to China, but they didn’t work. Turns out they’d first taken them to the basement where someone cut them into pieces before sending them to China.

You can do this. If you commit the whole next month to it you'll make quite some progress. But you won't.

China has no shortage of Nvidia chips. It costs nothing (relatively) for someone to just buy a 5090 off the shelf and send it there.