Pebble Mega Update – July 2026
repebble.com211 points by crazysaem 12 hours ago
211 points by crazysaem 12 hours ago
The ring sizing has been such a debacle, first with needing to buy (!) their special ring sizing kit because standard sizing wouldn’t be accurate they said, and now they say that the ring sizing kits weren’t true to size and suggest this:
> When in doubt, order a larger size. You can always adjust a larger Index 01 to feel smaller with a foam adhesive or clip but you can’t make it larger!
Size up and shim it with foam!
I could be misremembering but I seem to recall them saying that their sizing (the reason you had to buy the special sizing kit) was slightly smaller than normal, and now it turns out the rings are coming out slightly bigger, could it be that all along we should've just used normal US ring sizing?
agree, not being able to guarantee or even know, it seems, how your sizing works is a deal breaker and i might have to cancel my order until i see how the first reviews come out :/
The index is a ludicrous product. The battery life, they claim, is 2 years. This is one heck of a misrepresentation. It is actually 12-15 hours. They get the 2 years because its meant to be used around 10-20 times a day, in *3-6 second* recordings.
The device is being marketed as external memory for your brain. I'm hardly a philosopher, but I don't have many useful thoughts that are 3-6 seconds in length. heck, when i try to voice record a thought, i'm uhming and erring for the at least 3 seconds.
Was just checking out the Index 01 [1]:
> Why can't it be recharged?
> We considered this but decided not to for several reasons:
> You'd probably lose the charger before the battery runs out!
> Adding charge circuitry and including a charger would make the product larger and more expensive.
> You send it back to us to recycle.
I don't think this is true. The charging circuit could have been in the charger itself. To provide access to the battery, one of the terminals could be behind a transistor enabled by the micro. The charger could then send a signal to the ring to unlock the battery terminal. Then all you needed to do was expose two/three pads externally.
Exposed terminals would need a lot more than a single transistor. It would need ESD protection and it would change the outer case from being a complete sealed over mold into something that had to seal against two exposed terminals. That’s a big change.
They would also need to ship a separate charger device to go with it, which approaches the complexity of the simple ring product.
These are solvable problems, but it would increase the cost, decrease their margins, or both.
For a niche, low volume product with an unknown market demand I think making the simplest possible version of the product is a good idea to start, but at $99 it’s getting into the range where buyers don’t want to think of it as a disposable item.
The bigger problem is that the 2 year battery life depends on the device being used for only short notes like “Add milk to the grocery list”. The people who expect to use this for taking notes or thinking out loud could exhaust the battery in a couple months.
Yeah, that's really not great at all! From their website:
> Wait, it's single use? Yes. We know this sounds a bit odd, but in this particular circumstance we believe it's the best solution to the given set of constraints
I don't want to be too harsh, since it seems like the pebble team are working hard at producing some exciting tech. But intentionally making a single use device is phenomenally irresponsible in today's climate.
I know they say they'll recycle them, but it'd be naive to expect anything other than a tonne of these becoming e-waste.
I was initially put off by the lack of recharging too, but I've changed my mind a bit.
I think the amount of ewaste is pretty small. My uneducated guess is that it's probably about the same as a musical birthday card. And unlike a singing card that probably gets used a dozen times and thrown away, the Index can be used >10,000 times before it's time to recycle it (assuming it lives up to the specs)
For comparison, check out the rechargable Stream ring. It's bulkier, costs >2x as much (before including subscription... The sub alone costs more than buying an index every 2 years), and needs to be recharged every night. It's sort of in line with Pebbles advantage over other smart watches- doesn't need to sleep on a charger every night
What do you mean by “today’s climate”?
The EU just mandated cell phones must have user replaceable batteries by 2027: https://www.cereport.eu/news/european-union/91054
So making this single use is kinda flying into the wind in that regard.
The EU just backtracked on user replaceable batteries for wearables.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/26/07/14/apple-watch-meta-...
Western Europe is experiencing a record setting deadly heatwave, for one interpretation.
Yeah I agree if it was 10 yrs then I would say no need to charge, but apparently it's 2 yrs? In that time frame you could totally recharge it.
I agree losing the charger is actually pretty likely but THAT'S ON ME. For a $75 product, I don't want to consider it a consumable.
So 100% agreed, +$10 add terminals and a special charger.
> How long does the battery last?
> Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
2 years is optimistic I think. 3-6 second thoughts is not much, most ideas I'm having past TODOs are >15 seconds. Plus this would definitely depend also on how regularly you sync to the app.
Bare in mind, these devices have not yet been used in the wild on people outside of the product creator. Maybe one of the use cases is to note down monologues, or to easily record conversations with clients for later review.
1 month battery life is also highly usable, but there at least should be a way to charge it.
Why can't they just sell the charger separately? If you lose it you buy a new one.
You could even make it a seperate item - buy one with/without the charger, then in 2 years you decide if you want the charger or an upgrade.
Seeing the index in action next to an oura I appreciate how much smaller/thinner the index is (or at least how much less it seems to “spread” my fingers apart with of a width of 6.5mm vs 8mm).
It’s effectively a regular ring with a button on it that’s smaller than a typical 1ct engagement ring. The oura by contrast (even the 4) is a chonker compared to “regular” wedding bands. I’ve tried in the past but personally a very thick ring is a non-starter for me. Might just be a personal sensitivity thing. Clearly the oura sells.
From a V1/MVP/founder lens I am sensitive to the value in shipping a product that just works rather than doubling the complexity with a bms, custom charger, wrap around flex pcb, and associated engineering effort to mitigate ignition hazards. Especially when there’s platform risk in seeing if this thing even gets used. There’s no platform risk on the watch side which has comes miles from my first pebble/Alerta that was one day charge and blackberry phone compatible only.
As for the ewaste argument? If the market demands a rechargeable product then that’s the right move. But from a weight perspective? This feels performative. Even pessimistically three-four 5g device that are 0% recyclable will generate less ewaste than a 200g phone with 55% recovery and a 5% recapture rate of obsolete devices thats turn over every 3.5 years. It’s like 10x less and probably in the ballpark of what a hypothetical “rechargeable” index would look like.
A piezo button would be neat, might be able to generate enough electricity for each use without having to rely on a battery at all. Not sure about the form factor here though.
Or even a thin-film amorphous silicon solar panel + capacitor.
Assuming most of the weight of that ring is the battery, it appears to be storing around 0.5Wh, so two years of operation should amount to approximately 30uW of power.
It should be possible to squeeze this much from a 0.5mm2 amorphous cell in direct sunlight. Considering the ring is 6.6mm wide at the widest point, they could get orders of magnitude more power even in poor lighting conditions, by just wrapping a thin-film solar panel around the ring.
EDIT:
Or just slap on four of these photodiodes:
https://www.sparkfun.com/miniature-solar-cell-bpw34.html
They're tiny, they're light and even though woefully inefficient, they should do the trick.
Not sure that would work. Charging is not 100% efficient, and if I remember correctly most batteries need to reach a minimum current to start actual charging. When you're talking micro or pico amps, it barely registers as a signal in most cases.
I’m also baffled that they didn’t do this. If I am buying something that becomes so precious to my workflow then I don’t want a hardware subscription. I also want peace of mind that the company will not be gone, or the product discontinued in a few years.
> To provide access to the battery, one of the terminals could be behind a transistor enabled by the micro
So it’s a brick as soon as the battery goes flat?
Hopefully version two is rechargeable.
This is version one, I'm not particularly worried as I will probably upgrade to version two by the time the battery runs out.
IIRC EU markets now mandate the USB-C charger for devices (which is not a bad thing, too many throwaway custom chargers....). Adding the port, the USB-C PD circuitry may take up too much room. I think this approach would require some kind of custom charging cradle (probably usb-c connected..). Is having a custom usb-c adapter to charge a device allowed under the rules?
I think the "dock" itself could be USB C easily, it would probably also significantly reduce the cost of the dock.
> Adding the port, the USB-C PD circuitry may take up too much room.
You don't need PD circuitry for this. 5V 500mA over USB2 is more than enough. But the actual port and battery charging circuit is a bit ridiculous at this size.
I'm not sure precisely what the EU rules are, but the requirement should really depend on the dimensions/power of the device.
I disagree with the super limited warranty terms and the lack of charger for the Index 01, but I am happy to give Eric and the Pebble Team a pass this time while their company is in this stage. I really hope they adopt stronger pro-consumer practices as the company finds its footing, but if they don't the good thing about their watches is how durable they are. I kept my Pebble Time on wrist through 2023, and by then I only stopped because I got sick of trying to repair the adhesive connecting the front bezel(?) to the back case. The PT2 is already a marked improvement over that watch's build quality so I figure I'll be good for at least eight years of daily use.
Its so good having Pebble back in action though.
I don't know if I would count durability as one of Pebble's strengths. The Pebble 2's silicone buttons often failed, and the bezel of the Time scratched if you looked at it wrong. There's also the whole thing with the company failing and only being propped up by Rebble to restore functionality.
> Is there a warranty?
> Yes, we warrant against manufacturing defects for 30 days after you receive your order.
Is this the shortest warranty on a consumer electronics device ever? What on earth are they thinking.
It's also under the minimum EU demands, but I guess they found a loophole or they just hope they won't be fined.
EU doesn't impose a minimum manufacturer warranty period. What it imposes is a _seller_ guarantee, for which the manufacturer's limited warranty conditions don't really apply directly anyway. Many companies will offer a 2-year warranty because they know that's how long they need to support the buyer anyway, but I've often seen conditions like "2 year warranty for EU, 1yr in US". Anyway, iiuc pebble is not doing anything illegal as long as they don't refuse seller warranty for these 2 years
In this case the seller is American and shipping from Asia, so while the warranty should be 2 years in the EU, there is no way to force them as they have no presence in the EU.
The pressure is “you can’t sell this here”
What's the mechanism for stopping them?
Interdiction at the ports. Seizure of persons related to the enterprise crossing into the jurisdiction.
They are selling it though. If I (from the EU) buy something directly from the US (or China), I don't expect EU conditions to apply. It's quite common and it's fine if both sides of the transaction understand the deal.
I'm not quite sure what that implies. That they have to support EU customers (since they sell directly to them) for 2 years and their "30 day warranty claim" is overridden?
I think its the same as the UK. The person who sells to the customer is responsible, so if they sell to a retailer who sells to users then the retailer is responsible. If they sell directly the warranty terms cannot override the law so they are responsible.
You realize the EU let Chinese sellers sell lead-containing painted toys to EU babies for 12 years despite endless warnings, right? They will not act unless forced or it's easy enough.
The EU came from the "European Union of coal and steel". It's a business first, not a government. And yes, they've really deceived a lot of people about this.
That's why we have the DMA ... except for Apple ... except for Google, as if that doesn't negate the entire law.
That's why we have the GPDR, except for (just for the Netherlands) any company the government wants https://www.avgregisterrijksoverheid.nl/ (specifically this negates the purpose of the GPDR. The first purpose of it was to protect your medical data from insurers, taxes, police and courts, so the insurer cannot decide you're committing fraud based on your medical data, or raise prices for you, or ... for example) well "ministerie-van-sociale-zaken-en-werkgelegenheid" has a specific exemption so they can regulate whether unemployment money can be used for medical treatment, and which ones ... And that's just one example.
> The EU came from the "European Union of coal and steel". It's a business first, not a government. And yes, they've really deceived a lot of people about this.
That is true, but omits an important part of the motive for that. The aim was to tie France and Germany together economically to discourage them from going to war again.
It became irrelevant quite quickly due to the cold war and NATO, but it was an important part of what was intended.
The toys are the problem because there are so many being imported they can't possibly control them all.
And if the EU tries to do something structural about it the backlash is enormous - look at that 3 euro fee for packages for example.
Same in Québec, where the legal minimum for guaranteeing against defects is 1 year (enforced at both the manufacturer and seller).
Usually the terms will use wording like "30 days or the minimum applicable by law".
Feels so fresh to hear their CEO talk so openly and transparently of all the flaws their products still have. Sounds like he's someone very fun to work with.
Nirav from Framework is similar, he speaks openly about compromises they make with their designs and why they make them.
When leaders are both technical and open about these sorts of things it makes me feel like I can trust that they are invested in supporting and improving their products.
The failure rate waving is quite a stretch though. If you take into account reporting rates and time (since most people do not have the watch for long) I'm quite concerned. And I own a PT2. The "look big number, it's not a problem" does not translate to actual sensible failure rates.
To be clear: 51 broken screens in less than two months results in a yearly failure rate of over 1% which is find quite high for a watch.
What would your acceptable failure rate be?
Less than 1% yoy combined. This is far over that when you combine all failures. Battery degradation is of course excluded.
The Pebble Time 2 looks pretty tempting to develop a custom running/fitness app for. It's got heartrate detector, accelerometer, vibrator for silent feedback, plus an SDK that works with Linux.
I almost decided to make my own app recently (and was also considering the Pebble) to try and replicate the old basis Peak functionality, but when I found out that the Garmin health data was relatively open and accessible, l decided that it was easier to just make a new badge/gamification system for the Garmin data than to make an entire tracking app.
Didn't Garmin recently change the terms of their deal and put the API behind a paywall?
The watch I really want is the Pebble Time 2 with a black-and-white screen.
The Pebble Time 2 is a huge step up from the Pebble 2 Duo in almost every conceivable way, but the contrast ratio on the latter is so much better that I still wear the P2D instead of the PT2, and just resign myself to deal with the lower resolution screen and inferior build quality.
It still pains me the only way to access some features is to have an account on Apple, Google, or Microsoft. No standard auth, no generic oauth.
Interesting. Curious, what features exactly?
Is it to download the Pebble mobile app?
I am so excited for my Round 2. The original Pebble Time Round (20mm w/ brown leather strap) is the single best smartwatch I've ever owned. Can't wait to relive it today haha
I received my Time 2 recently.
The original Time was my first smartwatch, which I used for maybe 7 years, until decided to sell it after briefly switching to iphone.
Since then I was constantly looking for something similar in terms of capabilities and battery life.
I pre-ordered my Time 2 immediately after it opened, but since then I started regretting my decision. It's quite an expensive watch, and I got used to living without it, so it the spending seemed unjustified.
But all regrets went away when I received the package. It's a good product. Excited for you too!
But its so cheap compared to other watches, analog watches I mean. And it is also competitively priced against other smartwatches, isn't it? The price really shouldn't feel all that bad.
You're right, that's just my perspective.
I've been on Amazfit Bip S. That's 10% of the price if we account for taxes and delivery.
And I haven't even considered the vast majority of alternatives due to (IMO) ugly OLED screens. Wouldn't buy any of those even for 30$, but you're right, they can be quite expensive.
I got the pebble time 2 now for a month. Pebble is the Casio smartwatch.
The issues are a bit sad. But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2.
To me, a Pebble is better than an apple watch due to battery life and hack-ability. Especially with the latest AI models it is just your imagination. And with ASK and Notification Forwarding it will be much closer to a Apple Watch in functionality.
> The issues are a bit sad. But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2.
The what? The only discount mentioned in the article is when they stop replacing cracked glass for free and heavily discount replacements instead.
And the only hardware changes mentioned are making sure they all get assembled correctly.
I should have said 'a discount' since I indeed hope they make a revised version of Time 2.
"But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2."
Has an updated version been mentioned anywhere?
If only iOS didn't gatekeep some of its most useful functions, that would be great.
Apple has been gate keeping for decades. It's a fundamental part of their business strategy.
Anyone still expecting anything different is ignoring reality.
It's really not complicated. If you want to continue to be gate kept, use their products and keep giving them your money. If you don't want to be involved with their shady practices, stop giving them your money and using their products.
What functionalities are limited on iOS? I'm curious, because I'm considering Pebble watch as I'm disappointed with Garmin.
Now with Pebble you only receive iOS notifications.
Soon in Europe you can reply to notifications via voice.
Anyone tried/ended up using their Index 01 in any substantial way? Looks interesting but the non-changable battery turned me off a bit, now this post reminded me of the little ring again, looks handy for taking quick voice memos.
I'm on ze list but not a beta tester so haven't used it, but as I remember the claim was to expect up to a couple of years life with moderate use; works out about $40 a year so seems ok to me if I mentally model it as a subscription.
Update: ah, here (obv the founders claim):
How long does the battery last?
Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
"Battery that lasts for years" being actually 12-15 hours of recording is a huge turn off honestly.
>How long does the battery last?
>Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
They then say:
>Wait, it's single use?
>Yes. We know this sounds a bit odd, but in this particular circumstance we believe it's the best solution to the given set of constraints. Other smart rings like Oura cost $250+ and need to be charged every few days. We didn't want to build a device like that. Before the battery runs out, the Pebble app notifies and asks if you'd like to order another ring.
My oura has lasted ~3 years, I recharge it twice a week usually, and I think it has spent way more than 15-20 hours turned on.
It's just a big faux pas in this day and age of environmental consciousness really. In my country we used to joke that people would buy a new car because the ashtray was full. This reminds me of that.
I don't really care about the environmental consciousness, my issue is that presenting a product with a battery that lasts for years when it actually lasts 15 to 20 hours makes me feel like I'm being lied to.
If it lasts 15 hours of recording and you record on average 5 seconds at a time, that’s about 11000 activations. I think 5 seconds is a pretty conservative estimate, most things I imagine this being useful for would be more looks 2. Easy to see it lasting years in those conditions, but yes you could drain it faster if you used it very heavily.
This is true, but there's a big difference between saying "15-20 hours battery life, which is 11000 5-seconds activations, which last you a few years with 10 5-seconds activation a day" and "years of battery (btw in small text the real number is given). Especially since they mention that this project is hackable/you can do other things with it, knowing in advance you have something like ~100k button presses means some projects feel perfectly and some others won't really work.
> This is true, but there's a big difference between saying "15-20 hours battery life, which is 11000 5-seconds activations, which last you a few years with 10 5-seconds activation a day" and "years of battery
Same issue Apple had when the iPod was new. How big is 20 gigs? Better put 150,000 songs instead…
I am restraining myself from mocking this idea of pollution from discarded smart rings. It takes some effort, but I'm being very mature and saying nothing.
You are not restraining yourself from mocking, you are somehow doing something even less conducive and more annoying
What is there to mock? Making ten smart rings because each one is consumable sounds worse for the environment than making one that has a simple charging circuit?
Well, it would have gone something like this, what I would have said: smart rings everywhere, littering the streets! Landfill sites, crammed full with smart rings! Towering trash heaps of smart rings, unmanageably vast, on fire, falling on us in an avalanche of smart ring pollution, what will we do! This might sound ridiculous, but it all adds up. We have to be concerned about every little bit of waste, because our concern successfully prevents it, as can clearly be seen nowhere.
It is a small amount of resources yes but all these little bits add up too.
There's a reason that we're banning all types of disposable electronics including vapes.
Wait, so it can record for 12-15 hours, then it dies and there's no way to recharge it?
That's like, horror game flashlight levels of longevity.
> other smart rings like Oura cost $250+
It's crazy they manage to say this with a straight face when their product still costs $225. Gee, $225 for a disposable piece of e-waste or $250 for a rechargeable device... but hey, at least it reminds you with an advertisement to spend another $225 before it dies!
The Oura Ring costs $350 now and it has an optional $6/month subscription.
Also, rechargeable does not mean it is infinitely rechargeable. After around four years, the Oura's battery will not hold a charge long enough to be useful (record a night's sleep), so it is also disposable.
We are comparing apples and oranges though because the Index is not a smart ring.
owning a time 2. nice watch. but i consider its purchase more as voting with my wallet for future editions. its utility is seriously limited by its dependence on a smartphone. given its size it's rather disappointing that it contains neither mobile, nor wifi, not even gps. while it may be an odd comparison, given my user profile and its feature set it is about as useful as my sensorwatch pro 2 which i really enjoy. i wish there where swappable custom boards for casios with more than three buttons ... the calculator casios would be a dream.
Mobile, WiFi and GPS would require a substantially bigger battery to achieve the planned 30 days (I get about 25 days). I guess it wasn't a design goal.
maybe. i don't see the appeal of 30 days battery at the expense of such relevant features. 3 days would be more than enough for me. also, considering that the watch is practically useless without a connected phone, advertising its excessive battery life is questionable.
This is a bit of a hand wave, sorry, but if you're okay with a 3 day battery life and want those features, then maybe the pebble is just not the watch you're looking for? I hear good things about the Garmin watches.
I deeply appreciate the battery life personally. Every time I charge it is an opportunity to forget to put it back on. I can go on a long trip and not worry about packing a charger. I can wear it at night to track sleeping more easily. And probably most importantly, with weeks of life, there's basically zero chance of me being surprised at 9am after leaving the house that my watch is about to die in a couple hours.
> considering that the watch is practically useless without a connected phone
It can still tell you the time. Its primary function is a watch.
It will drift, significantly, without being connected to a device to set the time.
I wonder if the functionality od Index 01 will also be available via the Pebble watch? I mean, it would be logical to allow that, all it needs is a separate app for the watch. But I didn't find any clear confirmation of this anywhere.
Less the part where you can do it one handed, I don't see why they wouldn't be. Even the Time Round 2 has a microphone just no speaker. If not official support somebody else can always make it.
I feel this would have been incredible....in the 2014-2016 timeframe. There just isn't any room for this product anymore. Pebble was at the top of their game before Apple came in and showed them up.
Cool watch. Have mine for a while. Would recommend. I love battery time (around 2 weeks with my usage patterns with longer backlight time). Love variability and flexibility of watchfaces. Comparing to my usecases of applewatch I am missing "find my phone" (which is mentioned to be under development) and paying with the watch. Yet increased battery life + hackability compensates those for me.
Hacking your own app is also something easily accessible. When I preordered the watch I thought of a breathing app which could be used with closed eyes. App must indicate breathing phase with vibrations. Guess what? In couple days I got first version running and published (couple more weeks of polishing completely transformed the initial version which still has screenshots in the project folder for historical reasons). In case you also want to meditate/box-breach with your pebble here is it free on any charge
Wow, the UI on that weather app is slick! Well done to whoever designed/implemented it.
missed the hype ten years ago, but now have a Pebble 2 Duo since about half a year. absolutely love it, although seeing images of the new models makes me a bit jealous. but just being able to see incoming messages on my wrist on a device i have to charge about once a month is so comfortable.
bit of a bummer that the new weather app is not for P2D, but well.
Are they still using eink?
It's a low power transflective LCD branded as e-paper, not e-ink. So it has none of e-inks downsides (namely low refresh rate and image persistence)
I kind of think so. This is why I believe the battery duration is so good. But it is a better eink display then 10 years ago.
I want this so badly, but unfortunately, shipping to Europe comes with unpredictable customs fees.
I had my PT2 shipped to Germany. Watch cost $225 and then I had to pay an additional $58.54 in taxes / customs fees.
finally.... my time 2 should be shipped by the end of the month. I've been waiting for it for ages! can't wait!
They’re not going to support legacy pebble by any chance?
Legacy pebbles still work great with rebble.io. I still use my pebble time daily connected to my android phone.
I went through 3 pebbles with the screen corrupting, and sending it back for a refurb.
I'm jealous that yours is still working, and I'm looking forward to getting back in the fold. My Fitbit Versa that I finally got after the acquisition is definitely spiritually related, but after Google bought Fitbit and got involved it became terrible with bugs.
They did the decent thing with the Versa and refunded everybody.
How did i miss this?
Unfortunately it isn't quite everyone, it appears to only be folks affected by the overheating issue and you need to have all the original accessories. I replaced the strap because the one it came with tore.
They... kind of do, software-side at least. What kind of support are you looking for?
[dead]
I don't know why HN is obsessed with whatever this product is (literally never heard of it) but I'm getting strong juicero vibes. Is this all botted up votes hoping for more VC slop or...?
You've never heard of "the most funded project in Kickstarter history"?
This project is the continuation of Pebble watches after they sold their assets to Fibit, Fitbit got bought by Google and Google open sourced Pebble software.
No, it's a nostalgia thing from us olds + the long battery life and hackability.
I also haven't used it, but apparently people liked the old pebble: https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/1ijjm5w/people_who_...