Studio Canal Movies purchased on PlayStation Store removed without refund
playstation.com145 points by kugelblitz 5 hours ago
145 points by kugelblitz 5 hours ago
> due to our content licensing agreements
Aka, due to their mistake. When Sony originally signed an agreement, they should have insisted on a perpetual license for anything already in the customer's library.
I was initially inclined toward some minimal sympathy for Sony here, but I see no good faith reason why they'd sign a licensing agreement which allows the other party to do this.
A friend and I were talking about this. What would you pay for it?
When iTunes + came out, you had 2 options, you could buy a song for $0.99 or you could be the plus version for more, I don't remember but it was like $1.35 or something. Plus had a higher bit rate and it wasn't encrypted.
Suppose you could buy a movie for $12.00, how much would you pay for the forever version? $30?
I feel like you're kind of making this more complicated than it actually is, either because you're overcomplicating it or because you're trying to tee up some rhetorical point, but the answer to your question is really quite simple and objective: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=movie&rh=p_n_format_browse-bin%3A...
You don't need to ask a hypothetical, the market has an answer.
To the extent your reply is "but that's not exactly what my question is", my point is that the market is already pricing all sorts of situations and the market would have no problem pricing just one more possibility into the already complicated market. Including "piracy", and people like me who are treating the vast majority of DVDs and BluRays as just a delivery mechanism for streams rather than "discs".
You'd pay for it what you paid for it. Did the "Buy" button specify that you were buying the movie or did it say you were simply leasing the film and that it can be removed at any time due to licensing agreement over which you (as the buyer) had no control over?
I think it should specifically say for how long you are renting it. They knew already when the contract would expire, why renting the movie didn't say "rent for 7 years" (or whatever the timeframe was)
That would constitute fraud IMHO. You cannot simply make it appear as though customers bought something, when the verb buy has a very specific and crystal-clear meaning.
If I buy a DVD, it costs a fixed price.
Why should it be variable, if we talk about digital media? Storage and content streaming is cheaper than embracing a whole logistic (producing DVDs/BlueRays, packaging, shipping).
But here we are again: if you buy something digital, you just pay for a "usage license", you don't own anything at all. After all these years or decades, I am still surprised that people expect to own digital content, forever
With digital you're hoping the 'store' keeps it in storage for you in perpetuity so you can redownload/stream it. If you buy a DVD and lose it you can't go back for another free copy. There's definitely an issue that the original license should allow you to always download and backup your copy DRM free so you will always have access but most people aren't going to do that. I bought lots of music/video content from iTunes over the years and rarely back it up. The fact I can just stream it/redownload it from them is very useful but it's also unreasonable for me to expect that Apple should be hosting my 99¢ purchase for the rest of time.
it's also unreasonable for me to expect that Apple should be hosting my 99¢ purchase for the rest of time
That's fair so long as it was made clear at the time of purchase that you aren't buying the song, and that you're only renting it for a while. If they didn't put a clear explanation that you might lose access on the page when you clicked buy, and not buried deep in a 50 page EULA, then it is entirely reasonable to assume that Apple can afford to keep a 5MB file available for streaming forever, or until Apple closes down its streaming services.
> With digital you're hoping the 'store' keeps it in storage for you in perpetuity so you can redownload/stream it.
Not necessarily. What if the store didn't have to do that?
Depends on what those $12 "buy" me. In Sony's case, "buying" meant "renting until Sony's license expires", which they could have displayed on the product page.
I very rarely re-watch movies within a few months. So if I buy one, I want to know that I can watch it again in one, 10 or 30 years (if the format can still be played). Which is not guaranteed even with blu-rays mostly thanks to DRM. But what I'd be buying is not having to think about any deadlines.
If I'm okay with a deadline, I might as well rent the movie for a weekend, in which case I expect it to be less than $12.
On a similar scale, if I am paying 35% more for the plus on music, I expect the same for movies around $15 or up to $18.
Terminator 2 is currently $8 for a bluray on amazon. $10 for a DVD. This is reasonably a forever version.
DVD perhaps yes, until the disc degrades.
BluRay no, because your player's keys can be revoked when you pop in a new disc.
DVD perhaps yes, until the disc degrades.
Which is the same constraint as pretty much any other physical item one might purchase. "reasonably a forever" is a reasonable description.
> BluRay no, because your player's keys can be revoked when you pop in a new disc
Wait what? How? How is that possibly legal?
Key revocation applies to releases published after the revocation date. Old media should continue playing with a compromised device key.
That wasn't what was implied then. If old media continues playing then it's still "forever".
This was planned for DVDs too, but they failed miserably.
In any other case: use MakeMKV
Ok, how long do you have to rip & copy the content as you desire? It is still reasonably a forever version. Before you bring up laws around keys, first consider that jaywalking in front of your house is illegal too. Again, it is reasonably a forever version.
jaywalking in front of your house is illegal
In most parts of the world it’s not illegal. That’s a seriously draconian law.
Crossing the street in a residential neighborhood is legal in almost all of the world and increasingly legal in the US as well. Many major cities started with non-enforcement and some are rolling back jaywalking laws entirely.
Why even bother with all those hoops. Just download.
Oh, I was adding a pertinent point of discussion in a discussion board. It is fun. I suggest you try it.
Snarky shit aside...
Why should I pay to be treated as a criminal, when pirating is better in every way and costs nothing?
There is no option of "Pay for digital copy of show that permits format/time shifting and backup for as long as I want, with no DRM". Like GOG. Doesn't exist in the pay realm.
It seems like you're just adding more and more qualifiers until you can finally justify piracy to yourself. You can reasonably do what you want if you buy the disc. There's a good chance that's how the people you're downloading from did it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯