Danish privacy activist Lars Andersen raided by police
twitter.com341 points by I_am_tiberius 10 hours ago
341 points by I_am_tiberius 10 hours ago
https://xcancel.com/LarsAnders1620/status/206820886474754051...
I'm Danish and lars kragh andersen is a bit of a grey zone. He obviously goes over the line, he tried to put GPS trackers on the cars of ministers. He "stalks" their families, and dox their children online. He gave an interview on how he'd ignore people carrying a kilo gram of weed when he was a cop because he doesn't agree with the "war on drugs". On the flip-side, he's sort of right. I assume that putting a GPS tracker on the car of our minister of justice is illegal, but that same minister (Peter Hummelgaard) is one of the key forces behind anti-encryption here in Europe. Similarily the politicians he stalk and harras are pro Palintir getting access to all our data, so Lars Andersen is sort of giving the politicians a taste of what they want to give everyone. He goes way too far though. Especially if he actually wants change, the way he "protests" is directly damaging his own cause, since nobody is going to sympathise with harrassing children. I suspect next time he'll have his cameras running with backup powers though. >He goes way too far though. Especially if he actually wants change, the way he "protests" is directly damaging his own cause, since nobody is going to sympathise with harrassing children. I don't think this is a given. Just Stop Oil says that their tactics do make people hate them, but their research tells them that it still makes peoples opinions on the issues move in the direction that they want them to. Their position is that if they achieve what they want while gathering animosity towards their organisation, once achieved, they can disband. This is referred to as shifting the Overton window. If voices from the extreme are not heard, the Overton window moves away from their position, so protests help their cause even if only a minority completely agree with them. I don't think Overton implied any causality between the phases of the window, just that distinct phases exist and that forces act on the window to cause it to shrink, expand, and shift. > but their research tells them that it still makes peoples opinions on the issues move in the direction that they want them to. I'd really like to see that research. > but their research tells them Thier "research" might be full of yes men. Its a know tatic to sponsor the extreme fringe to discredit a cause. Just stop oil receiving oil money? If it’s a “well known tactic” (well known by whom?) then it’s a counter-productive one - the more the extreme is heard in the mainstream, the more rational the slightly less extreme version sounds (It’s something the right-wing tends to use extremely effectively, the left wing spends too much energy infighting) For the first time, I see that being a problem to right-wing parties, specially in USA. Now you have neonazis gathering a community by saying you are not extreme enough, and harassing the Jewish people of your side. It's crazy when you compare that to 10 years ago, but it is what it is. I know of Peter Hummelgaard and I am not even from Denmark. Just because his work and plans. He certainly deserves that tracker and then some... This is interesting and all but is ultimately just an aside. Are the law enforcement actions on display here legal in Denmark? If not, surely there's prison sentences in store for anyone involved. Right? I think the sim cards are more important: he wrote that Nest switched to local recording mode and the police took the evidence. Very charitable to call it a “grey zone” to stalk and dox children of politicians you dislike. Isn't the point that those politicians want to do precisely that to others? Stalk their children? What policy are you referring to? Upthread: > that same minister (Peter Hummelgaard) is one of the key forces behind anti-encryption here in Europe > He goes way too far though that's what activist have to do to shake people I have heard this claim before but I find it unconvincing. I have given up support of movements for which activists have acted cruelly or otherwise immorally. Obviously one person doesn't represent a movement, but if I only ever see immoral people leading a movement, that will form a basis for my opinion of the movement. My observation of these activists is usually that they seek attention at any cost. They will hurt people to achieve that attention. Worse, I don't even think it's about the movement. They just want the attention personally. Others in the movement tacitly condone this behaviour. I think the most frustrating part of this is that they claim it's to raise awareness. Who among us has not heard of global warming? Who has not heard of data privacy? The reality is that they're not getting the public support they desire because people just don't agree with their goals or beliefs, not because the public is "unaware." > I have heard this claim before but I find it unconvincing. I have given up support of movements for which activists have acted cruelly or otherwise immorally. Most people aren't this particular brand of irrational. > that's what activist have to do to shake people That's also the line most terrorist groups use. Its not exactly wrong i suppose. 9/11 did get Americans to think about the middle east a lot more. The difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is a matter of which side of the fence you stand on. They are basically the same thing, especially these days when you get marked as terrorist for talking bad about the people in power. > difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is a matter of which side of the fence Oft repeated but untrue. Terrorism, empirically, doesn’t work. Non-violent protest, and armed insurrection (aimed at the state, not its population) do. Sometimes freedom fighters can benefit from terrorism. But they are distinct strategies with separate targets. And freedom fighters are supposed to actually care about "freedom" while terrorists generally do not. I fail to see what great advancements in freedom for anyone involved have come out of the terror attacks performed over the past 25 years. Terrorism very much does work. The Basque and the Northern Irish terrorists / freedom fighters have gotten a so many of their demands for autonomy met that they disbanded (in one case formally, in the other almost) because they weren't needed anymore. Taliban also got the US out from Afghanistan pretty handily with mostly terrorism. The Taliban absolutely did not terrorism the US out of Afghanistan haha yet you fail to account for the fact that said people wouldn't wouldn't be in power did terrorism not have occurred in the first place. How many bad leaders in the west resulting directly or indirectly from terror attacks? Two towrers falling, man of the weat warring man of the east, all seeing stones in every mans hand for the kings to see and understand through and a fiery behavioural ring, burning in the dark ready to consume all civilzation in endless war. Not if it's detrimental to their cause. E.g. the just-stop-oil people have only garnered haters. A successful case might be Luigi Mangione. > A successful case might be Luigi Mangione. There have been several public opinion polls that included questions about Luigi Mangione. He’s consistently unpopular among the average population and his actions are generally unsupported. Not at all surprising for an extremist activist who literally committed murder in public. It’s only when you visit smaller internet bubbles like Reddit where you can start to get into areas where it feels like his actions are widely supported. A lot of activists are like this: If you go into little bubbles that align with their actions they seem popular. Zoom out and look at the population, including people they were trying to persuade and reach, and they’re not popular like they seem within the bubble. This is also why twitter drove journalism (and perhaps even the country) off a cliff. Naive journalists thought twitter was a "public square" that they could conveniently access from the comfort of their living room. They didn't know that it was a powerful echo chamber that resonated the best with strong views, and the space had long been a refuge for people with extreme outlier opinions. Hence why "topics worthy of national attention" where just whatever was trending on twitter. >A successful case might be Luigi Mangione. Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Did it achieve the effect that everyone is getting cheaper healthcare now? OR, on the contrary, it only achieved that CEOs are now getting more anonymity and private security, while the plebs are getting more invasive law enforcement tracking like Palantir and Flock shoved up their ass to prevent them from doing something like that again? > Sorry, but how was that murder successful? There's many anecdotes of people who managed to get lifesaving or lifechanging treatments in the panic after the CEO got murdered. Obviously, anecdotes aren't data - but it is highly likely that even though one life was lost, many were saved. Healthcare was much cheaper for several months after Luigi Mangione. Source? From https://www.newsweek.com/brian-thompson-muder-health-insuran... > The fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has prompted healthcare executives to say they will address growing frustrations among Americans struggling with access to and costs of medical care. From https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/23/health/health-insurers-preapp... > Months after the killing of a top health insurance executive unleashed Americans’ pent-up anger over denials of medical care, the industry announced Monday that it will take action to “streamline, simplify and reduce” the preapproval process. However, from https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/04/health/insurers-prior-authori... > However, multiple provider associations and patient advocacy groups interviewed by CNN say that little, if anything, has changed over the past year. So, hard to say for sure. How would be the US now without Luigi Mangione? Would you have cheaper healthcare? Would Palantir or Flock disappear? > Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Successful in winning over the public. The public was already on Luigi Mangione's side in theory. In practice however he didn't inspire further revolutionary action by the public, because they were pacified by memes. And that's why he's a failure. > how was that murder successful? One less psychopath in charge of a US health care provider being around? It seemed for a brief moment like some of the other psychopaths CEOs might start changing things for the better. But you're right, when there wasn't a wave of "finding out" for other health care CEOs they seemed to go right back to it. >One less psychopath in charge of a US health care provider being around? What kind of broken logic is this? What good did this do for you if the end result for you is the same or worse now? Other than feel good for vigilante vengeance than then backfires on you in the end. It's not like there's a shortage of CEOs to take his place and keep doing the same thing. You're not in a comic book movie where if you kill the main "bad guy" then society magically fixes itself at the end, because there is no main villain here, society is broken not because of the decisions of one CEO, but because of a combination of decisions of thousands of people, factors and incentives accumulated over decades that lead to healthcare and other things sucking, and you don't fix it overnight by killing one guy, you instead just make it worse for everyone else who isn't a murderer. You fix it by talking, campaigning, gathering people and voting, knowing that it will also take decades to undo, the same way as it took decades to get to this stage. That's the only way you enact change that will will guarantee bi-partisan buy-in and actually stick around for the long term. Policy changes implemented by populist movements under threat of violence rarely produce good outcomes that last. If the system is rigged heavily against you, relying on it to affect change does feel like a losing strategy. The fact that such a large part of the population supports literal murder could also be considered a political statement. One that would not have been expressed so strongly without what happened. So much of this madness could be resolved with a simple income cap. Musk’s wealth grew by $1 million per minute over the past year. Who can seriously argue that this is fair and balanced? Are you talking about income or actual wealth? Your income may remain constant while your wealth rises significantly (say... because your investments are doing well, because you inherited... etc). The two are often confused when talking about (tech) billionaires. > What kind of broken logic is this? It's not even slightly broken. It's about the people responsible for destroying the lives of those they're supposed to be helping, instead abusing those people for personal gain. Is that really something you think should keep heading in the same abusive direction it's been going for many years? :( >It's about the people responsible for destroying the lives of those they're supposed to be helping... instead abusing them for personal gain. That's what the justice system is for. If you don't like the way it works, then vote to change it. Look how Luis Rossman is doing it for a good example. But shooting people you don't like as vengeance for what you perceive is wrong, is some third world banana republic shit, and no such country where this is normalized is remotely safe or functional, look at Africa and parts of Latam. You think you want that but you don't actually. IF you do sincerely want that, then I sincerely hope you get what you want, but both ways for you and only you, while the rest of us stay isolated as spectators. > third world banana republic shit Welcome to America. Are you new here? :D what the justice system is for is redirecting anger by making people like you think the justice system is going to fix the things you're angry about
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