Dumbphone 2
dumb.co76 points by skogstokig 3 days ago
76 points by skogstokig 3 days ago
The maximum battery save mode on Samsung (or maybe on all android devices?) does just that - you can set the limit on which apps can be opend. Turn the display to greyscale. Homescreen only shows like 8 apps.
I think for most people, just putting an extra step between you and whatever toxic app(s) you have can be enough. It mostly works for me, and as an added bonus you get insane battery life. I would try that before buying a new phone.
Combine this with a "dumb profile" on most android phones (I think Samsungs support profiles) it's even more friction. It takes time to switch profile and it forces you to authenticate again
Different people need a different number of steps inbetween. I know for myself, I'll just end up disabling the battery saver mode.
Same. Only friction big enough for me is turning my smartphone off and using an actual dumbphone. Been using one since January, only switching back occasionally to my smartphone when I have no alternative: https://www.maciuz.net/posts/rewiring-my-brain/.
Fair enough, I probably wrote most people just as an automatic phrase when it should be "some people"
"Just say no"
This is more like "just increase friction". For some people it's more than enough, for others it's barely anything. Personally speaking, I've found that just the act of removing the reddit app from my home screen makes it fairly less likely to be opened, as now I need to open my app drawer.
I mean... unironically yes. Different people have different levels of struggle with temptation, and one can pursue strategies to make it easier to say no. But at the very core of the matter, it is a personal choice that must be made by the individual. Everything else has to flow from that first step of self accountability.
I encourage everyone interested in Dumbphones to make their regular smartphones into Dumbphones. It's a better middleground for me because you get all modern product apps, like google maps, without distracting apps like youtube.
iPhone dumbphone
695 points 9 months ago 396 comments
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45171200
Android basically what I do: https://jordanherzstein.neocities.org/posts/adb_vanadium/
Just add a long password for the owner profile, live in the user profile and you're golden.
A subscription dumbphone? Sounds dumb, I can just buy a better dumbphone
So much in modern day consumerism is about "lifestyle" and signaling the lifestyle (to you and others). if you're not paying a sub for your lifestyle, are you really following that lifestyle?
Maps, Uber, WhatsApp, Spotify, Apple Music. How is that a "dump phone"? Just uninstall unnecessary crap and you get the same thing.
The subscription is for the phone service. Though it is true that you can only use this with their service.
According to the FAQ the Dumbphone 2 is based on the TCL Flip 2. I had pretty good success with this phone as a first phone for tweens. The firmware allowed disabling the browser out of the box with adb. I could transfer music to it to be used as an MP3 player. The battery life was ok, not the best. This was an earlier version that ran KaiOS.
What do they run now? KaiOS was honestly awful. I had to source some of these for a halfway house. Having to teach people T9 in 2026 is tough. The entire phone was janky as hell. I worked in cell phone development, I've seen my fair share of awful phones. These were probably the worst phone I've ever used. Worse even than the unusable NEC e606.
I've been searching for a decent dumbphone for the better part of a decade. Unfortunately, I cannot really say I've succeeded. In that time I've tried the following phones: Nokia 225, Punkt. MP02, Mudita Pure, Doro 7030 and now a Nokia 2660.
My list of requirements isn't long: 1) should make/receive phone calls, 2) should make/receive text messages, 3) have physical buttons and 4) preferably use 4G and be able to create hotspots (the last requirement, I have deviated on occasionally, like with my current phone). A requirement 0, if you will, is that it needs to do these things at high quality. But in one way or another, they suffer wildly in either hardware or software, or both. Often to the point, where I wonder if the creators themselves use them.
The two Nokias unfortunately have quite a few ad programs (like Facebook of all things), that just clutter up its menu (but which I can thankfully just ignore), its T9 dictionary is weak (though this will be a recurring theme, they are all bad at doing T9 dictionary typing), and its text message storage is severely limited. The Punkt. MP02 had high quality hardware, but again its T9 typing was frustrating, and eventually mine just bricked. The Mudita Pure was probably the worst one, though: it only supported characters A-Z, despite being developed in Poland, which is frustrating when living in a country, that regularly uses characters beyond that. The Doro 7030 had bad buttons, that often wouldn't properly click, leading to missed characters while typing, and it had an annoying behaviour, where sometimes it would just miss calls, and its T9 typing was abysmal.
I still have all the phones (except the Mudita Pure, which I sold to someone in Greece, even though I explicitly warned them it would not work at all with Greek letters, which they later confirmed, as it was just showing squares), and I am generally sad, that it feels like a bit of an electronic waste.
And why not a dumbed down smartphone, then? My requirement 3 isn't debatable, I loath touch screens; they are - for me at least - the bane of modern existence. I cannot avoid them entirely, but I can lower my own exposure. For example, when I bought an induction stove top, I made sure to get one with knobs.
Maybe when I feel ready again, I will try my hand at another[0]...
My dumb phone solution: an Apple Watch with a cellular connection.
You can’t browse the web or install addictive apps. But you can get your mail, texts, and phone calls and you can listen to music, check the weather, and navigate with a map. It also has a physical dial you use for scrolling.
There’s enough friction with the device that you aren’t glued to it, but it’s functional enough that you won’t miss leaving your phone or wallet at home. It mostly becomes a watch first and foremost but also has the perfect feature set as a phone replacement.
100% agreed.
Once you get over the hump of "I don't need to be notified of everything" and start pairing down the notifications, I find that most of the time I can put my phone down and just get the right notifications on my watch.
When I need to respond to something, that's when I grab my phone (or laptop).
Perhaps its not quite 'dumb' enough for you, and they have yet to ship so no one can really speak to the quality but this product https://clicksphone.com/communicator might fit your needs. I'm thinking to get one myself but not yet decided. Will probably wait for a review or two.
I didn't hesitate to preorder it. Team behind it is really solid and passionate. Hopefully will have it in my hands around Christmas.
I have a Nokia 6300 4G that matches all of your list of requirements, including acting as a hotspot.
I now recall why I did not buy the 6300 4G, because I remember it looked very promising: it is out of stock everywhere. I'm going to assume HMD aren't making more of those, and they don't seem to have any KaiOS feature-phones in the works.
I found mine on Amazon shipped from France. The reviews were all over the place with some people complaining that they had ordered a dual-sim version but only received a single-sim one, I took the chance and got the dual-sim one that I wanted, maybe some inventory co-mingling had been happening.
It is a shame that it isn't widely available, someone could maybe write a Signal app for KaiOS.
Check out Foqos. Free for iOS, lock any apps down with a QR code which you leave in a cupboard for the times you really need to unlock.
Otherwise great for calls and messages, that it! Works great for me
I have a nokia 110 4g and it works perfectly. Yes, it is clunky to type, but that is a feature, not a bug. If long messages are called for, I call or email.
Wifi hotspot is sadly what's frequently missing, I'd like that.
As far as I know, the mp02 or one of nokias Kaios phones are the only ones that provide that, but kaios is frequently called the retarded little brother of Android, so due to all the bugs I avoid those phones like the plague.
My emergency solution is to buy a separate 4g modem if I need hotspot functionality, but to be honest, wifi is so common these days, that I hardly ever need it.
> we made the intentional decision to not include email on the dumbphone 2 to stay aligned with our values. we created a communication device with essentials that help guide you off your smartphone screen, while still being able to operate in the modern world.
I'm looking for a dumb phone and this looked promising until no email. Email is underrated as a time saver, if you aren't getting hundreds of emails daily which is a choice. Email is not as urgent as text or phone calls and its main advantage is that it separates the sender/receiver schedule or timezone.
People need to learn to guard their time and schedule like a hawk and not operate in chronic reaction mode, i.e. someone else setting your priorities for the day.
> People need to learn to guard their time and schedule like a hawk and not operate in chronic reaction mode, i.e. someone else setting your priorities for the day.
Why not just use a smartphone if you’re able to guard your time effectively?
I feel like the main reason people are interested in dumb phones is because they’ve identified that they personally can’t, for whatever reason. (Certainly that’s why I’m intrigued by them.)
Plus, email access is assumed for identity verification these days. Whether that's porting a number out from a wireless carrier or any service that has your email but not your phone number.
Once upon a time, or perhaps in an alternative universe in which the iPhone did not take over the world, there was Peek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek_(mobile_Internet_device)
> Email is not as urgent as text or phone calls
I receive emails that need immediate attention and texts that can wait a day or two. The only urgency attached to these communication methods is the urgency you assign them.
The limited communication options and the frankly weird choices for what to include and what not to include (no email, WhatsApp and Uber are included?) make this a very weird product in my opinion.
I like the idea and even though I would like to have something like this, I still find need for a smartphone for certain things. In Sweden we are basically required to have an identification app (Bank ID) and that app alone can’t even be used unless you have NFC, which for instance an iPad doesn’t so that you could offload to that. Small things like this I run into constantly.
Fortunately I have discipline enough that my smartphone is a glorified dumb phone with a great camera and some other useful apps. Everything else I try to offload to iPad since I am much less often on that device. It also takes a bit of time and effort but focus modes are great too.
I bought a cheap Android "dumbphone" specifically for going to the gym. I was constantly getting distracted responding to messages / browsing the internet while working out, so on this phone I only have my workout tracker and Spotify installed. I disabled the Chrome browser though an app restriction tool. The phone has a cheap data-only SIM. My regular phone stays in the car.
I noticed this made a huge difference, I'm much more focused on training and my gym sessions finish a lot faster.
Do you swap SIM cards all the time? This seems to be the biggest blocking issue for me.
I tried switching phones once a week, which was heavenly. Might try that again, it requires some discipline.
Apparently some phone companies can/will provide you with aux SIMs, which allows two phone to share a number, or so I've been lead to believe. I can't find a single provider here in Denmark that will issue me such a SIM. Kinda sad about that, because it would solve most of my issues.
I need a smartphone for a few things every so often, but most of the time a dumb phone is perfectly fine.
I do not, the gym phone has its own SIM. I have it running a cheap data-only eSIM from esimdb.com
If you need synchronized phone / text messages, I suggest Google Voice. When anyone rings your (free) Google Voice number, it will forward the call to multiple phone numbers. It will ring as a regular phone call, not as an app notification. However, text messages appear as app notifications.
Reminds me of the Palm Companion from 2019, a tiny smartphone that worked alongside your normal phone.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/6/18212311/palm-phone-review...
Like all dumbphones, it suffers from the same problem. Specifically, your set of dumb apps isn’t my set of dumb apps. Idgaf about uber, but i need Signal and Slack. You dgaf about those, but you need facebook messenger and google maps. Etc.
I think the solution is not a dumbphone but a full android e-ink phone. Horrendous for everything that involves video but runs every app and can be used as an ereader.
Unfortunately I have to found one that speaks to me, as they are all from Chinese manufactures with questionable quality.
What do you think of the minimal phone? https://minimalcompany.com/
I like the idea here and tried this. It took 3 months to ship. The keyboard was really frustrating to use. Maybe a landscape layout keyboard that slides out would have worked better. I'm surprised anyone can use this comfortably because I have very small fingers.
It also is a pretty big brick to carry around. I remember it being sort of randomly buggy but haven't used it in months, so I don't remember the specific things that were issues.
Insane price. I really should get into this "stripped-out phone masquerading as a crafted minimal phone" space.
Large pile of waffle incoming:
This was the way for me. I spent a good few years trying proper dumbphones, but I always needed an app for something. Carrying two phones didn't work, no off the shelf 'Smart, yet dumb' phone had the particular mix of features I needed.
The best half way house I found was a Nokia 2720, it runs Kai OS (Formerly Firefox OS), so very easy to throw a quick app together and add new features as needed. Unfortunately all the important apps were similarly thrown together, battery life was awful, calls, alarms and messages came through when they felt like it, the T9 predictive text was diabolically bad.
I went back to basic android for a while, tried all sorts of settings and methods to cut back, but I am just too vulnerable to their flashy attention grabbing tricks.
But the e-ink? Hot damn it worked. Everything I actually needed, and just enough friction that I don't use any more. The lack of colour certainly neutralises a lot of the attention grabbing tactics, but I think the real difference for me is the lack of fluidity. It's always just a device, and never reaches extension of self territory. It is truly refreshing how many times I've left the house without it and only noticed a few hours later.
As for manufacturers and quality, I went with a Hisense A9 as it seemed to have the best open source support at the time. It was a bit pricey considering the general specs, but when the screen is the bottleneck you don't miss the processor speed or camera quality. (I actually quite like the lousy photo experience, it feels a bit more like film, or early digital where you just have to shoot and hope it comes out ok)
Despite that, I've ended up sticking with the manufacturer ROM with just a few tweaks. Perhaps its selling all my data to the CCP, but it's rock solid and much more polished than any cheap android phone I've used previously. It's really well set up to get the best from the hardware too, in a way that the lineage port couldn't quite match.
If you think it might work for you, I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.
The main caveat I'd offer if you're trying to reduce your screen time is that it doesn't work if you primarily waste time reading. Reading is a joy with this, and I am much more likely than before to pick up an e-book or finish a long article I'd otherwise have skimmed.
Other quirks of the A9 if anyone is considering it: - The GNSS receiver is atrocious, it regularly fails to get a fix in clear open fields. - It's a small battery, low power phone. I usually get most of a week out of a charge, but one heavy background app can drop that to less than a day. Discord was the worst until stopping all background activity, WiFi hotspot is also pretty brutal on the battery. - The stock OS has a deliberately very limited notification system. Get used to intentionally checking for messages every now and then - Doesn't play nice with non-chinese carriers. Out of the box I had intermittent SMS, no VoLTE and regular call drops. All fixable via shuffling some files around over ADB though, see XDA for the how to - All specs are OK. The camera is OK. The speakers are OK. The processor processes. That's all you get. - Some apps are just not E-Ink friendly. Spotify and google maps are the worst I use regularly. Scrolling, full screen movement, contrast and dark themes are the enemy. They are both totally useable, but it can take more than a glance. - No IP rating, I don't go swimming with it but it sure rains a lot here and I don't like having to care + The 3.5mm output is gorgeous, sounds fantastic with any headphones I've tried. Easily the best of any smartphone I've used + It is very nice E-Ink. Lots of totally useable apps for the A9 would not be so on a lesser screen. + Though I rarely use it, the frontlight is very nice to have and intuitively controlled
I love the idea and wish I could get something like this in Europe. The main reason I "need" a smartphone over here is that EU banking regulations make it nearly impossible to do online banking without one. Anyone know of similar projects over here that would satisfy that need?
"Europe" may be a bit broad there. In Denmark, I can get by without a smartphone; I have to carry what they call a "MitID code display" to gain access to online public services (though the device is entirely free of charge), but I also carry keys, so it's not a big hassle.
Depends on your bank.
A lot of banks in Germany still offer photoTAN generators. Effectively, a physical device that generates 2FA codes for your login. You can then use the website as usual and use the codes from this instead of phone confirmation. This is one example from ING.[0]
That way you can effectively use most feature phones as your daily drivers. HMD (Nokia) still manufacturers some of them that even come with GPS, etc. There are some feature phones that even run Android but I don't know what app support for things like Spotify is like.
There was a comment a couple of days ago that mentioned using MDM to lock down their iPhone. So essentially, dumbing down a normal smartphone to whatever your essentials are and removing the web browser. That may be an expensive way of going about this, but I find it an interesting approach. Android probably has similar solutions, anything outside that duopoly will get tricky again w.r.t. banking.
I gotta ask. What does everybody do with their banking app, that they need it with them all the time? It's always the excuse why people can't switch to some other phone.
At least in Germany, many banks still offer alternatives. You’ll need to buy dedicated hardware like a chipcard reader.
Alternatively, keep a cheap smartphone around with nothing but the banking app on it.
Right, I suppose this is theoretically possible here too (I'm in Austria), though I haven't looked into it that carefully, because all the options here seem to cost more than my current bank account and as far as I can tell still require a smartphone.
I wouldn't necessarily mind a dedicated piece of hardware, but if it's dedicated hardware, I feel like the bank ought to provide it, not make me pay for it. And I'd much rather it be a generic piece of hardware that can also be used as a second authentication factor for other things, like a Yubikey. I've looked around but have not found any banks that offer this. The only one I had heard of no longer offers it.
I don’t see why it ships with a SIM + a forced plan.
That limits the ability to use it (or buy it) in any «unsupported» country.
Sleke phone solved my dumbphone needs. I'm very satisified.
A hardware solution to a personal behavioral problem.
I've seen people use Screen Time on iOS to help them 'adjust' their behavior. There was a thread on this just the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48312443
“I’ve decided to stop going to the bar, as I am trying to be healthier and I think the atmosphere there leads me to drink more than I’d like.”
“Sounds like a geospatial solution to a personal problem.”
“...”
I see nothing wrong here. You cannot fight several teams of customer retention (no idea how it’s called) when you are already deep in their hands. Sometimes the best way is to remove or limit their products.
> customer retention
I suppose you're referring to engagement maximization algorithms (my words) of socials?
> already deep in their hands
If a person observes they're sensitive to these, do they really need an additional device to disrupt their reactive behavior and be a little bit more deliberate in what they do?
> remove or limit their products
Is deleting the apps or using them in moderation[1] really so hard?
[1] One form of moderation I've found is to disable notifications for those (if not all) apps. Again, seizing control instead of being reactive to whatever some platform/app/device decides to shove down your throat at any given time.
> Is ... really so hard?
Anecdata: I implement most of my behaviours on a kilo of fatty meat and neurotransmitters. It's not a great stack; it has a massive attack surface. It's also orchestrated by an endocrine layer, which is precisely the wrong way round.
I didn't select this architecture, I was instantiated with it, and there isn't a nice migration path.
Zaibatsus - Meta, Condé Nast - outgun me and my biological peers by many orders of magnitude. They can attack vulns that should have been patched in the Precambrian, they have research departments, and they can A/B on millions. We're lambs to the slaughter.
Brain modules cannot be unloaded, so if you were compiled with `addictable=on` then you have no defence-in-depth against an entire class of attacks. If they get through the gate, they have a good chance at persistence.
Hth you understand the difficulties faced by bio-organism admins.
I broke the website with 3 clicks, wow.
best dumbphone is a smartwatch
Modified TCL Flip running KaiOS?
Which makes me wonder how they claim to support WhatsApp since they no longer support KaiOS. Maybe it's an Android fork instead.