Trade Dollars with other startups. Book it as revenue
revswap.ai177 points by tormeh a day ago
177 points by tormeh a day ago
Services in kind is a pretty common business practice. You see this a lot at the SMB level especially outside of the US.
Small businesses are cash strapped. So you find someone who needs your services and you need their services. Instead of exchanging cash, you exchange invoices and do the work. You build them, say, a $5000 website, they perform, say, $5000 of landscaping.
At big boy levels this is often structured as “strategic partnership”.
The part that makes it not fraud is that both parties do actually do the work.
> The part that makes it not fraud is that both parties do actually do the work.
It's far more nuanced than that.
If you do the work but undervalue it, it's likely tax fraud.
If you do the work but overvalue it, it's likely investor fraud.
Even if you fairly value the work it still might be investor fraud. The vendor may have been chosen not by merit, but by its willingness to accept an exchange of services. Saying you have $X in revenue implies you won that revenue by merit.
This isn't a good take.
> If you do the work but undervalue it, it's likely tax fraud.
A company can value it's services as it chooses. If the work is performed for $1 or $5000 the government doesn't get a say in that.
> you do the work but overvalue it, it's likely investor fraud.
Quite possibly. Assuming this was done with the intention of misrepresenting your revenue and gaining investment.
>The vendor may have been chosen not by merit, but by its willingness to accept an exchange of services. Saying you have $X in revenue implies you won that revenue by merit.
Vendors are chosen all the time because of their willingness to accept specific payment terms and a whole bunch of non-merit pipelines via family, via golf course deals etc.
> A company can value it's services as it chooses. If the work is performed for $1 or $5000 the government doesn't get a say in that.
That's simply not true. You may get a certain amount of leeway, but it has to be reasonable.
> That's simply not true. You may get a certain amount of leeway, but it has to be reasonable.
Where have you seen this?
When I was doing consulting I could charge whatever rate I wanted. Usually around $200 but went up to $500 and down to $25 when doing a favor. Same type of work.
At the enterprise level this is even more common. Nothing has a fixed price and the same service can be sold at wildly different prices to different customers based on endless variables.
No, it doesn't have to be "reasonable". Its only illegal if it is used to cover up some other illegal thing.
For example giving huge discounts below cost only to family members, which is more or less like paying them money without paying taxes for it.
It might be legal in YOUR jurisdiction, but at least in the jurisdiction I'm in, it is not - AFAIK - legal to neither underwrite or overwrite costs on the sole purpose of avoiding tax or grooming the pig.
Note that we’re talking about two companies exchanging services.
When two companies undervalue the services that they offer to each other, they pay lower taxes. This is the illegal part.
If the expense is tax deductable, it mostly doesn't matter whether you have $10 earnings vs $10 business expenses or $10K.
Good luck explaining that to the IRS.
The IRS would be fine worth it if taxable income is unchanged.
Businesses are taxed on their net income, not get gross.