Most people can't juggle one ball
lesswrong.com268 points by surprisetalk 4 days ago
268 points by surprisetalk 4 days ago
Many of you might know of Noisebridge, a beloved hackerspace in San Francisco. They had (have?) a juggling workshop every saturday called "Juggling with Judy", taught by Judy Pinelli, founder of the famed Pickle Family Circus (and a huge influence on Cirque Du Soleil).
I had no idea how famous or influential she was. She first taught us how to make our own juggling balls: snip the ends of a balloon, fill with enough rice to feel comfortable in the hand, then wrap that with another balloon to seal the rice in, then snip the ends of the second balloon.
Then she went through the usual sequence: throw a ball, er, balloon, from one hand to the next, then practice with two and so on. By the end of that 2 hour session, we had got the essentials.
The remarkable thing about this workshop was that Judy was at an advanced stage of multiple sclerosis at that point. She was pretty much completely immobile from the neck down, and couldn't even see our hands properly from her wheelchair. She could only see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient information for her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your elbow in". "Focus on the left hand, the right will follow".
After the 2 hour workshop, she'd go to Golden Gate park to teach juggling. All for free. I feel extraordinarily privileged. She's been my polestar in life.
Longtime juggler here.
Outside of more complicated tricks like the claw and other specialized patterns, the most common juggling patterns (such as the cascade [1]) don’t rely as much on pure handeye coordination as they do on maintaining a consistent, even toss. The key is throwing each ball so it rises and falls in a predictable arc, so it lands approximately in the same spot where your other hand is waiting to catch it.
When I teach complete beginners, I actually start with a set of special handkerchiefs. They fall more slowly than balls, which gives learners more time to react and makes it much easier to see and follow the path of each object through the air.
My favourite technique is after the initial two ball crosses was for me to stand in for their left (or non dominant) hand.
You stand slightly behind your pupil and get them to put their left hand behind their back and you put your left hand about where theirs should be. You give them one ball in their right hand and then you start the pattern with two balls.
Most people are amazed to find themselves juggling at this point. Yes, you are correcting their mistakes but it gives a real feeling of juggling for them. Most people manage 10 catches quite easily at this point.
Once they have the hang of that swap sides. This one is harder, don't do it too long before setting them off on 3 and they can practice themselves from here on.
I have taught 100s of people to juggle like that :-)
Some of us had a juggling party at a lake. All amateurs, i.e. few could manage much with clubs. An international juggling award winner (don't remember more than that) found out, joined us, and had a number of us partner juggling flaming torches pretty quickly, and kept pushing us into more and more techniques. The quality of the coach matters!
That's a neat approach! It's not really the same, but it kind of reminds me of an interview they did with Michael Moschen (the guy who performed the contact juggling scene in Jim Henson’s movie Labyrinth). He talked about how difficult it was because he had to thread his arms underneath David Bowie’s, so he couldn’t actually see the acrylic ball while he was doing the contact juggling.
A long time ago (pre-internet) I heard a normal person can learn to juggle in 1 day. It took me 2 days, but I learned to juggle 3 balls. But soon I realized what you said, the need for a consistent toss. Not sure of the reason, but I always make some errors with physical movements, they are never perfect. Even with typing, no matter how much I exercise, I cannot get bellow ~3% errors. Wondering if this is some kind of genetic effect, and how many ppl have similar issues.
I haven’t tried juggling for decades but I did manage to teach myself basic three-ball juggling when I was at university (any excuse to avoid revising!)
I think it took me a couple of weeks though. I’m a bit malcoordinated for that sort of thing in general. I think you’re right that there’s some sort of natural aptitude that not everybody has. Fortunately basic juggling is just about easy enough that almost any idiot can do it.
I, too, make unpreventable physical errors all the friggin time.
For instance, I attempted to upvote your comment but initially downvoted it. Sigh.
This made me laugh. The number of times I’ve Admiral Ackbar fat-fingered the flag button when I just wanted to hide a post on HN is almost too many to count at this point.
The way I taught myself to juggle was something I don't see very often in guides, but I think works quite well — I taught myself to juggle two balls in one hand, until I could do it with both hands, and then three ball juggling with two hands was just doing the exact same thing, but crossing.
Yeah I have wondered about that as a method. You can even just go two balls in one hand, then switch to the other side and back, and that's almost the 3 ball pattern.
I’m very amazed by this site linked in the Wikipedia: https://libraryofjuggling.com/Tricks/3balltricks/Cascade.htm...
Supposedly from 2014, but looks a fair bit older.
When I learned to juggle (which I've forgotten), it was with beanbags, because they don't bounce away when you drop them.
But where's the fun in that? Chasing the balls is half the challenge!
Seriously, knowing the balls are going to roll away if you drop them gives you some incentive to do it right. I think I used tennis balls early on.
Yeah I never really mastered a consistent throw - it's just not how my brain works. I got as a pretty shakey 4 ball shower and that was it.
Every time I got better at dancing I got better at juggling too. In my folk psychology, juggling is a partially-attached extension of your hands, so it’s just weird dancing.
If you think of it like 3 jobs you have to do simultaneously everything falls apart. Internalizing the three balls as a single process that you are participating in makes it a lot more manageable.
Of course the only way to get there is some 10s of hours of practice
Yeah I could see that. I think that because dance is so heavily reliant on proprioceptive abilities, it makes sense that there would be some overlap with juggling.
I wonder if juggling positive buoyancy balloons upside down would develop skills transferable to right side up. You can make those as slow as you want. When jugglers juggle balls against the floor I guess they don't start from scratch.
Lol. I’ve juggled non-buoyant, air filled balloons but because of their elasticity they don’t exactly settle into your hand when they land.
In my juggling routine, one of the things I do is transition to lying on my back face up while continuing to juggle. I’m throwing the balls straight up above my head while lying perfectly flat, which feels pretty weird. So I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to be physically upside down while juggling.
Oh waw, I had totally forgotten about the handkerchiefs. But this is indeed how I was first thaught juggling when I was a kid. Thanks for the trip down the memory lane!
could you please link the beginner handkerchiefs?
The ones I have are pretty old, and I got them from a local store that doesn’t exist anymore. They’re kind of slightly weighted, for lack of a better term almost like a foxtail toy.
You could probably just use standard juggling scarves and get much of the same effect. Renegade Juggling is probably one of the better places to buy juggling equipment.
https://renegadejuggling.com/products/juggling-scarf-23-inch...
I learned using plastic bags. Probably not as uniform in their motion as handkerchiefs, but worked to get the pattern down before moving to balls.
Any recommendations for youtube lessons?
I love Taylor Tries
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGV8mtb7t-4PuziHauottOfqp...
Great teaching style and a fantastic juggler
Practice against a wall with tennis balls, it’ll take a day.
I don't recommend tennis balls for a beginner: they bounce everywhere, and you'll spend most of your time chasing the balls rather than juggling. Cheap juggling balls are around 10$.
Learning to juggle way back lasts century, I learned to juggle using lacrosse balls. Very bouncy and and a little on the heavy side. Standing over a bed helps if you are using bouncy things (they still can cause havoc in a bedroom when they bounce off each other though).
One of the IJA (International Jugglers' Association) videos that most impressed me is : IJA Tricks of the Month by Zaila Avant-garde | Juggling Basketballs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH2E1m8Fseg). Not only does she manage the juggling but her parents let her do it indoors with all sorts of stuff around.
I actually learned contact juggling with a lacrosse ball, since its uniform color and texture make it hard to see the rotation of the ball. That way, you get the similar visual effect to a more expensive acrylic, but without the risk of chipping if you drop it while you’re still learning.
If you do use tennis balls, stand in front of your couch so they land there and don't roll away.
This. Something like a hacky sack also works very well. They don’t roll away from you, and they won’t drive your neighbors nuts especially if someone lives below you when they hit the ground.
Part of the motivation is to make sure you catch them and they don’t bounce away. Negative externalities aren’t always a bad thing.
I tried and failed to learn to juggle three balls many times, I've just got terrible coordination. But one day I stood over a bed and just threw them in the air and listened to the rhythm of the "thuds" as the missed balls hit the mattress. As soon as I'd got that down it was like a switch clicked and my hands knew "when" to be ready for the catch, rather than trying to follow the balls to catch them. I never managed four, so mileage may vary with this technique, but it was a very surprising lightbulb moment.
I had a friend who had absolutely terrible coordination.
I would bet against him being able to learn three balls.
But he was very dedicated. Long story short. After many years he could comfortably juggle 6 (six!) balls.
It looked wobbly, he still looked like a person without coordination, but the balls somehow stayed in the air.
I wonder if his coordination in other areas has improved as a side effect?
I know mine sure did! As a kid I was totally uncoordinated, always the last one to be picked for any sports teams. But I definitely noticed the difference when I picked up juggling as a young adult.
Four is just two in each hand. Learning to do that one hand at a time is a nice addition to a three ball cascade. You hold the third in your other hand, and it's a good source of jokes.
You can do four-out-of-five, which is a five ball cascade with a missing beat (just as how you learned two-out-of-three while learning initially). Unfortunately it's very hard and still doesn't impress people.
I taught myself in junior high to juggle three balls with two hands and two balls with one hand. It's not a huge accomplishment but what amazes me is that I can go years without trying it and when an opportunity comes up I can just do it again, within just a couple of tries. Those neuronal connections just never go away.
Learn to juggle two balls with the other hand and you are half way to 4 (which is two in each hand out of sync)
Out of curiosity - can you juggle four balls?
I can, but I wouldn't describe having two two-ball capable hands as being half-way there. If forced to put a number on it, something like 20% is the best I could do.
Sure! Juggle two in dominant hand. Then two in weak hand. Then two plus one both ways round, then 4. That's how I used to teach people anyway. Balls go up on the inside and down on the outside. For most people two really well in non dominant hand is the hard part.
When you taught, what was a typical uptake like?
I came in and out of 'actively juggling' through time, but I was at least 20 years with strong two in my off hand before four really started to do four for any real number of throws.
The perpetual issue was that the loops move in and out of sync, so the rhythm of responsibilities ends up with beat patterns that confuse my focus.
I may try that. I can do two balls in either hand already. I just never tried doing it in both hands at once.
Strangely even though I'm right-handed I feel more comfortable juggling two in my left hand. I also bat and golf left-handed so sometimes I wonder if my parents forced right-handedness was on me.
I'm currently learning the fountain pattern and it's cool to know that it should only take about a month. After that though...
I thought this post was going to be a metaphor about how most people can barely handle 1 project, while some people need to multiple projects for it to feel natural...
I can only juggle 3, but I prefer clubs. Balls are so boring they are so small and not spectacular. Clubs on the other hand, man they are rotating. Once, twice, treetimes, backwards. I believe that if someone stuck at this basic level of juggling 3 balls, he should try clubs - at least for me it's pure satisfaction watching these rotating in various variants before.
Many years ago one Saturday morning I happened upon a juggling shop. I could already do three balls so I asked if I could try the clubs. After about an hour of failing the shop owner said something like "some people never get it". So of course I bought a set. After 12 hours that day and 12 hours the next I got the hang of it. They are harder to learn than balls but still doable for an unsporty person like me. And, as you say, very satisfying.
You can also pass clubs. In fact, at my local juggling meetup (Castro Valley BART), it really breaks into two groups: passers and numbers. Passers get together and pass. It's quite social. Someone explains a group pattern and they work through it. OTOH, numbers jugglers can juggle 5 or more clubs+balls. They segregate themselves off and really only talk to each other. We're in the same place but numbers only talk to other numbers.
Learning club juggling was fun. That led to partner club juggling as well as flaming clubs. Got a nice video of me juggling flames and overrotating a club so I catch the flaming end. Whoops.
I've wanted to code a VR game for juggling but never found time for it.
Feels like it would be super-easy-to-code and probably would be lucrative. Implement "slow down time" so people can practice juggling in slow motion, add some other features like catch radius and bias towards consistent height of throws and you've got a great game!
I made a 2d game like this once for, of all things, Palm Pilot. You could tap for the apex of each ball throw.
Just today I improved my record to 18 minutes. Btw, I noticed my juggling is completely subconscious, I don't move my hands voluntarily where the ball is, the hands move on its own.
Thanks for posting this. You reminded me I have three juggling balls collecting dust behind my monitor. I forgot how fun it is! As others have said I'm surprised the muscle memory is still there even after a few years without trying.
I wonder if I got Alzheimer's so bad that I couldn't remember my kids names, would I still be able to juggle? And would it be therapeutic in any way?
> Another mistake is completely ignoring the ball and staring into the distance. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've seen it a bunch more with *rats* than anywhere else. In any case, I would recommend you just casually glance up at the ball as it reaches the top of its arc
Is 'rats' a juggling jargon I'm unfamiliar with? Or do rats stare into the distance often?
TFA is posted in/for a community where "rats" is slang for the community members.
I learnt to juggle with the help of this book: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/777103.The_Complete_J..., all sorts of tips and tricks in there
Worst thing about juggling is that you get a very good instinct to catch falling stuff, even if it's sharp and pointy.
Didn't expect this to actually be about juggling, but I'm not complaining
The first HN submission ever that got me to put down my device and go outside, and probably going to get me hooked.
Is it time to get good at darts yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eotWyZv5c
To be fair, I can do 3 balls effortlessly, but I can't do 1 ball like it is in this description, I just have a lot of error correction, enough to do it pretty much indefinitely. But I cannot reliably throw it accurately to the other hand.
Our software stack is the opposite of that.
Juggling is so much fun! I use 3 balls and felt like it was easy, when you know where to start and simply follow the process step by step.
Memory Masters draw me to it, and I found some super normal niche Streamers showing what to do.
Juggling is some sort of meditation.
Enjoy!
A little disappointed that the writer never attempts to address the title of the post, which is either a) why most people can't juggle a single ball, or b) how the author even knows this to be true, aside from some limited anecdata.
My (admittedly limited) juggling experience would indicate something closer to "Anyone can juggle", or that your average person, particularly young people, can learn to juggle one, two, or even three balls with an afternoon of practice, but I suppose that makes for a worse title.
Long, long, (long) ago I used to teach people to juggle at the local Renaissance Fair. I would say I could get almost everyone to flash 3 in less than 30 minutes. Most people walked away having at least 5-6 successful throws. The only people who really couldn't learn are those who don't like to fail and won't even try. Learning to juggle is repeated failure and you have to be willing to persist. Learning 5 clubs (very briefly) took me many years of repeated failure.
> "Anyone can juggle"
Technically this is not incompatible with the title. Just uses “can” in a different sense. The title would be using “can” in the “has the skill already”, while you use “can” in the “able to acquire the skill” sense.
It is not hard to imagine that most people when asked the question “can you juggle?” would answer in the negative. That’s what the article’s title describes. And then if those people, given sufficient motivation can learn to juggle that leads to your sentence. And they both can be true at the same time.
I agree that it would be nice to provide source for the claim though.
I would say no to currently being able to juggle, but that's because I don't consider one ball to count as juggling.
If you specifically asked if I could juggle one ball, I'd say sure. And I just checked, one ball goes fine. And I've never practiced juggling. I'm pretty skeptical about that ability being the minority.
So I also want more explanation of the title.
I assumed most software eng from the early aughts can all juggle.
The other's in Albert Hall
Just juggling with balls in the air gets boring very quickly, and the added numbers don't make it much different. Learning statics and flows from contact juggling, but performing them with standard juggling balls is so much more fun. And then you discover statics with hoops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6UuPsw2i4
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Is there anything HN related involved here other than autism?
HN guidelines say "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" is on-topic for HN
Don't be fatuous with me boy. It's clear that that criterion could justify any number of things that are always immediately flagged. In fact, it could justify literally anything being posted here.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
You think there's nothing about "politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities" that "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" that isn't "evidence of some interesting new phenomenon"?
This post is about a sport (juggling) and doesn't cover "new phenomena". So what the hell are we doing here? Any more rule nerd ass hall monitors want to drop another irrelevant rule in here?
lol. Thank you for the laugh.
I’m there will you. I always laugh about how autism and SSRIs are not for discussion here. It’s too on the nose.
> When I'm bored, I just whip out my balls and start having a play. And people watch, and sometimes join in.
Nice.
(I'm sure the author did this intentionally)