How to get better at guitar
jakeworth.com282 points by jwworth 3 days ago
282 points by jwworth 3 days ago
This brought to mind a quote from Ira Glass:
> Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.
I think listening and transcribing is great advice. Careful listening will help to improve your own listening ability and taste. It also helps to demystify why something is great.
But it's also going to be a struggle - especially at first. You have to be prepared to struggle, a LOT. Most people won't be able to keep at it, and that's one of the things that separates the greats from everyone else.
I'm a jazz musician, and my kids are both professional classical players. I've asked them why they don't learn to play jazz. My daughter described pretty much what Glass is saying here. She calls it "fear of sucking." She knows what good jazz improvisation sounds like, and trying to make herself do it is pretty discouraging.
Not that there's anything wrong with loving and playing classical music, which is a factor too.
This may be why it's different when you start very young. You're not conscious of your own sucking, you just play, usually in a setting where everybody's congratulating you. For sucking. ;-)
I started on classical, and got into jazz by accident, as a bassist. It turns out that you can function in a band as a bassist without having to improvise very much, so I was able to learn at my own pace and eventually did. In fact a lot of good jazz players started out in school jazz bands or large ensembles where you didn't have to be a good improviser right up front.
I picked up Violin as an adult, have done recitals, and I suck. Being able to suck and find joy in something anyway even if you're not top nth percentile is a valuable life skill.
So many things in life are better if you can get past that fear of not being good. Because very very few people can skip the stage where they are not good. (I'd be comfortable saying nobody. But there is always somebody, it seems.)
I tell my Mentees one of the greatest skills is getting good at not being good at something. Being comfortable being uncomfortable.
This is good advice for most human activities. I told my students these exact words (you gotta get comfortable being uncomfortable) countless times when teaching math and physics.
"Dude, sucking at something is the first step at being sorta good at someting" - Jake the Dog
I was at a dance hall the other day, and this young lady came floating in. It's hard to describe how she walked - just like she was effortlessly gliding. It looks easy, but anyone else would look like a moose trying it.
It's the result of a lifetime of ballet dancing. Probably 10,000 hours, at least.
I was just in awe.
It's not just the 10,000 hours, it's learning it very young.
I am an ex-professional ballet dancer, and one of the things I always find interesting is that any experienced ballet dancer can instantly tell who trained as a child and who didn't solely by how they stand (literally not even moving) at the barre. But the thing is, children with only a few years of training under their belt will often show this good form, while I have literally never seen someone who started as an adult, even dedicated adults who take class 4-5 times a week, get rid of that "I started as an adult" posture.
As an example, I was actually quite impressed at how Natalie Portman really managed to "look the part" in her role as a ballerina in Black Swan. Still, she wasn't fooling anyone with training - even with just a simple port de bras (raising of an arm), you could easily tell she wasn't a dancer.
I'm not in the least surprised by that. Bones in children are softer and more malleable, they don't harden up until 16 or so. (That's why young athletes should stick to more reps and lighter weights until 16.)
I've tried emulating those movements, and just look like Bullwinkle.
Another incident: I was stepping out of my ride to the airport, and noticed another woman pulling her luggage out of the trunk of a car. I remarked "I bet you're a ballet dancer." She said "nope, I'm an ice dancer!" Funny I could tell just by the way she wrangled the luggage.
and I'm on my knees looking for the answer
I think another aspect is regarding fundamentals. In order to stay engaged in the early years, you will skip over the minutia. But to achieve the next level, you must go back and drill the fundamentals, unlearning any bad habits in the process. Only then, once you’ve “learned the rules”, can you then surpass/break them.
This works for programming as well. I’ve spent countless hours reimplementing things or cloning things just to learn how they work. Sometimes mine is better than the original, sometimes it’s not. But regardless, I learn a lot along the way and occasionally get to teach something as well. It’s a great way to learn new languages, new concepts, new systems.
Are you implying some people don't have taste, or less of it?
I like to call it interest. What makes something interesting to some that I'm not sure.
Do you know the source for this quote? I would love to read more, if there is more.
I've picked up a couple languages relatively easily and I 100% attribute it to the fact that I have no shame - zero
I will speak in my ugly, broken, American accent and do it til I improve. I didn't read about this technique in a book or anything, I simply mirrored what I saw kids do and IMO a big reason kids do well with picking up language (aside from all the physiological stuff) is that they actual speak it - they aren't concerned about whether it sounds like baby talk or not
A lot of advice feels trite and cliche, like keep trying, etc - but often times it takes repetition and hearing the message in many different ways before it sinks. As a tangent - this is the value i found in therapy too - a great therapist that was patient and consistent in their messaging day in and day out eventually led to some of what they said sinking in.
I also picked up a couple languages as an adult and can attest to this. You have to be willing to talk and know you are butchering the language. Nobody cares either. People are genuinely pleased to hear the effort, especially if you're a guest in their country.
That reminds me of an interview I heard with comicbook artist Chip Zdarsky. He was talking about how we all love to draw as kids, but eventually around 10 years old or so we start to become aware that what we see in our heads isn't anywhere near what's appearing on the page in our drawings, and that gap acts as a powerful filter discouraging most people from pursuing art any further.
[flagged]
You know you're gonna get banned/deleted, right?
There is a good graph for transitions that works well for learning since it is a process of forced change.
https://cdn.shrm.org/image/upload/c_crop%2ch_883%2cw_1401%2c...
One truth I've observed from decades of keen hobbyist involvement in guitar music and playing is that a lifetime of music is largely an individual journey.
The fact that some players learn by transcribing, while others learn by jamming, and yet others learn by rote theoretical study, or 10-hour practice sessions, etc, is a big part of the variety which results in the wonderfully varied tapestry of music styles and approaches that humanity creates and enjoys.
Not to take away from the age-old, valid advice in the link about the value of ear-to-fretboard work.
That’s it.
The individual who has a breakthrough often feels compelled to call it a “system” and start telling others about it.
The great advice someone has is just what worked for them. It will probably work for others, especially if it repeats common advice, but it won’t work for everyone.
There’s also a causal bias here.
If I practice guitar for 6 hours a day (like John Petrucci in his teenage years) while always wearing an orange hat, I’ll get pretty damn good at the guitar in a few years. I can then spread the word to everyone that the best way to learn the guitar is to always wear an orange hat.
As with the dangers of ‘productivity porn’, ultimately what matters most is putting in the hours.
I can’t imagine stopping every note. I think it is pretty good practice for me to never stop if one can avoid it.
I used to stop all the time, when I made a mistake, between repetitions, when I finished the piece.
I agree about ear to fretboard.
I think you need both. If you never stop or slow down, it's hard to build the proper muscle memory to improve and get more accurate. However, it's also valuable to practice playing through mistakes to finish a whole song. Mistakes happen, and if you're playing for a crowd you can't just stop and start over.
Yes, both. A good example why is for example, as muscle memory grows it will bias your note selection when improvising. Sometimes you really need to slow down to consciously force yourself to explore other sounds. Once you've done that, you need to wear it in again so it sounds natural in your playing.
Absolutely. You can get "locked in" to certain patterns / phrases just via muscle memory and familiarity. Need to balance that with a little improv to find new patterns phrases you like, and then can train those in via muscle memory.
Everyone learns different, but there is something universal in music that is essential to mastering an instrument. You should be able to hear something in your head and then play it. The goal is there is no barrier between your thoughts and actions. Learning to play by ear like that is the best way to get there in pretty much all instances. Looking up tabs is still great, and you can learn a ton from that (huh? another song with G, C, and D, I wonder why? Is it similar to the C, F, and G songs I'm playing?) but if you want to get next level that is the best way. I am a guitar play and I was in a band with another guitar player. I had a music minor, thousands of hours of practice and knew my theory inside and out. The other guitar player barely knew any theory but was way better than me and one of the best guitar players I've ever heard. He could just play. He didn't need to know the theory, he could hear it in his head.
Sting famously learned to play bass using this sort of technique with music on LPs, lifting the needle and dropping it back a bit in the track over and over again as he gradually worked out the notes and fingering.
Probably almost any method is effective at learning guitar, as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing.
I started playing electric bass in college, around 1984. I too used the record and lifting the needle technique. The only reason I'm commenting is that early on I learned a LOT of Police songs. Why? Because
(1) the songs were already in my head,
(2) Sting would have two or three cool hooks per song, and this is the important part,
(3) the hooks would played over and over during the song. That meant I could play the song all the way through and get to practice each riff 10 times or more with just a single needle lift.
A prime example: Demolition Man (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf7To6vdg7A)
> Probably almost any method is effective at learning guitar, as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing.
There are a few pedagogical points here to keep in mind:
first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them.
Also, different ways of learning have different values in terms of what goals you're aiming towards and very importantly what kind of practice will keep you motivated in a sustainable way. Sometimes, taking shortcuts in some ways means you might slow down your growth rate but you'll have better overall growth because you'll keep at it for longer
> first, there are local maxima in terms of learning something like guitar where you get bad habits and the only way to progress is to undo them.
I'm not convinced for guitar. Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique.
As long as you're not injuring yourself, practice and determination pretty much overcomes everything.
> Some of the fastest and most famous guitarists had shockingly bad technique.
The universe didn't offer a manual on how to play guitar, so how are you determining that their technique was bad? Given what you say about them, maybe they actually had the perfect technique?
> as long as it includes the key factor - time spent practicing.
And at least for me, frequency beats duration. I make more progress when I play consistently for even 10 minutes every day than when I play for 90 minutes on Sunday afternoon.
My music teacher said that practice does not produce perfection, only perfect practice produces perfection.
If you mess up, redo the part you messed up correctly 5 times in a row.
And, don't just practice the easy stuff. You have to challenge yourself to grow.
>If you mess up, redo the part you messed up correctly 5 times in a row.
I think it may be important to note _when_ to redo this. I started off this way, but after working with a guitar teacher (a Berklee graduate), he recommended that I continue on with the song and return to the problematic parts afterwards. If you constantly stop at the problematic parts to replay them and get it right, you'll have no idea what other parts you'll have trouble with further into the song until much later. In addition to that, being able to move on and continue playing the song after making a mistake is an important skill itself. If you build that skill, it's usually only other musicians that will notice -- a regular audience won't.
What's your take on it?
As somebody who started teaching himself guitar as a teenager, put it down for 10+ years and started back up, this resonates.
Everything takes twice as long to learn because I first have to unlearn the old habits.
Yes. Put another way: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.
And as my music professor once said: "If you sound good while practicing, then you're not practicing."
Time is the largest factor though. Some ways are better than others but there is no substitiute for time.
why am I posting here instead of practicing?
Add some distance and sensitivity. I used blunt / brute force repetitions and somehow wasted years. Music is very subtle, and keeping a focus on small details is worth thousands of hours.
That's called ear training and it's crucial. I don't think all ways one can play and call it "practice" are equal
Wow, Justin with his hair!
Been plucking at the guitar (literally and figuratively - trying to learn) for a couple of years now and Justin's (free) course was the best I've found. His videos are compassionate, funny, explain things really well and easy to follow. He also dog-fed the instructions by learning to play left-handed (and posted those videos as well, hilarious to watch).
Compared to that, some time earlier I subscribed to a Berklee free course on Coursera (iirc) - Beginner guitar. Felt like a fumbling idiot, almost never touched guitar afterwards.
Really recommended: https://www.justinguitar.com/
Another 10/10 free course is Scotty West’s Absolutely Understand Guitar on YouTube. Filmed in the 90s and it’s still one of the best classes out there.
>When you hear the first guitar note, stop the song, find the note on the guitar, and write it down.
OP, you should have mentionned the prerequisite of absolute pitch...
No need for absolute pitch. All you need is relative pitch. You play a note, compare to the note you heard, maybe even play them at the same time. And then change the note till you find the right one.
How do you do that with chords? I know everyone who isn't completely tone deaf can do that with one single note. But when it comes to chords, unless you already know some music theory, aren't there infinite number of combinations you have to try before you find the correct one?
I thought the same for a long time and it really discouraged me. My natural pitch recognition is pretty bad. What helped was starting with very simple melodies and songs, so I could get familiar with the most common movements. That made it easier to figure out progressions, because I learned how to narrow down the options. I’m still not great at it, but I keep improving. That’s why I think it’s trainable.
This piece of software has been my goto on transcribing music for all of the instruments I play for the past 25 years. I can't recommend it enough. It has been pivotal in me being a better musician. Works on Linux, Mac and Windows.
Same for me. It came recommended by my upright bass teacher. I used to transcribe all songs that way.
Recently, I've been lazy and learn new songs by watching players on YouTube.
It’s a great article on something that’s useful, but a bit overconfident in its universality. Better at what? There are many dimensions to being a guitar player. Is it technique? Theory? Ability to pickup a song by ear (this article)? Better at playing in a group? Better at playing solo? Better at reading music? Better at accurate bends? Better at fingerpicking?
One of the nice things about music is you can’t get good at ALL of it. You have to pick where to focus. I’ll also say, you might need to ask yourself if you want to get better. I love relaxing by reading through the chords on a new song and playing it. I already have a job, and the time I truly have for intentional practice is like once a month. Most people are not studying to become guitar pros but to enjoy their time with the instrument. If that is your goal let joy be your guide. Perhaps some short term pain is part of that journey but really weigh out what you want out of the experience.
Recognizing melodies by ear is a hugely useful skill, but I can't help but think it's going to be nearly impossible to do without a sound foundation in music theory.
Tabs are, in large part, paint-by-number. Lots of guitarists out there are only interested in learning a song. Regardless of key, mode, or what the notes actually are. And, tabs satisfy that group by saying: "Play this fret on this string".
To write tabs, you'll need to be able to make an educated guess at what's being played. ex. "Is that a minor pentatonic scale? Or are they arpeggiating a minor 7th chord?". If terms like that aren't in your musical vocabulary, and you haven't played enough to recognize the difference, I don't see how a guitarist would even begin writing their own tabs. Maybe the author is assuming this skill set.
Learning formal music theory helped me a lot when I was a teenager playing guitar and piano, and having absorbed all that theory more than fifty years ago helps me to continue enjoy playing and improvising music now.
But over the years I realized that there were gaps in the Western classical theory I studied.
A relatively small one is that I never systematically studied jazz harmony, and I still don’t have a good sense for it. I can’t make my improvisations sound like jazz even if I try.
Another, bigger gap is rhythm: I have listened over the years to music from all over the world with interesting and complex rhythms, but I cannot explain those rhythms or reproduce them. The classical notation and theory I learned is not up to that task, either.
The biggest gap, in my mind, is my lack of exposure to any formal theory of melody. I like good melodies, I think I have a sense of some features that separate good melodies from drab ones, I think I am able to create pretty good melodies, but that all came from listening and experimentation and playing. I once (again, more than fifty years ago) looked through some music theory books in my college library that covered melody, but I didn’t get anything useful out of them.
The videos on music theory that crop up on my YouTube feed all seem to be about chords and scales. Maybe some music influencers should start producing in-depth content on rhythm and melody, too.
I may be wrong but I don't think there is a theory of melody in as there is go harmony or counterpoint. A good melody can't be constructed from rules. That's what makes them magical.
As I write this, I think when a melody sounds good it's likely related to the implied harmony in the notes being used, and obviously the expectations the listener gets and how they're handled. But I don't think there is a system of constructing good melodies in Western classical music theory.
I'd say that once you understand practical harmony, counterpoint, diminutions, common schemata, some basic elements of form, you've pretty much understood what classical music theory has to say about melody too. There's definitely an element of playing with expectations in a fully "creative" and rule-free way, but knowing the theory underneath is how you understand what the expectations are.
Having learned guitar in a way that's somewhat similar to what's outlined in this article, I will say that someone doing this transcription-based method will likely naturally consolidate their "making tabs" into "making chords" pretty quickly, because the patterns occur often enough. I'd also say that producing your own tabs is very far away from a being a mere tab-consumer, it's just a natural introductory medium because tabs are very easily digestible to a beginner and, as you say, satisfy the craving.
I think that starting off with easy songs, and with enough brute force as you scale up, you can become organically familiar with these concepts to make the educated guesses you're talking about.
Many renowned musicians were able to effectively create music utilising these concepts despite never formally learning music theory, and by just learning by ear.
> To write tabs, you'll need to be able to make an educated guess at what's being played.
Knowing the theory certainly makes the process faster because you'll recognize patterns, but you can definitely work through most songs without knowing anything about music theory. Just pick up your guitar, slow the track down and try to reproduce the tones.
Back when I first started playing guitar, my teacher had me transcribe the melody to Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (from memory). I didn't even know the major scale at that point, but by trial and error I improved my intuition for translating melodies in my head to the fretboard, which is remarkably useful as a guitarist, not only for improvisation, but for composition as well.
That's not to say that knowing music theory isn't helpful in transcribing and in general, but I wouldn't say it's a prerequisite. A lot of my foundation in music theory came from transcribing first and putting things together afterwards.
> I didn't even know the major scale at that point, but by trial and error
That is not productive. Sure, you can do that once or twice. But it gets painful quickly.
> but I wouldn't say it's a prerequisite.
I firmly believe it is a prerequisite. Just by knowing what an interval is and playing that repeatedly, trains your brain to recognize it. Specifically 1-3-5 interval range.
This is also one of those things that varies with the individual. When I was a kid taking cello lessons, I learned to play by ear. For classical students, theory doesn't really start until college.
I know very little theory, but I've been playing jazz for almost 50 years, and I know hundreds of melodies along with enough of their harmonies to improvise and accompany other players. Many people pick up tunes from the radio or hymns at church, even if they don't play an instrument.
I think a helpful tip for ear training is that you can do it without an instrument, just by hearing stuff (tunes, rhythms, accompanying parts) and trying to sing along. For beginners, this avoids the awkwardness of the instrument and its technique getting in the way.
If you develop your ear and learn your way around your instrument, then you can learn to play along by ear and then just write down what you're doing.
>For classical students, theory doesn't really start until college.
Well, unless, you are studying here in Hungary, for example, where it starts pretty much right away... (though it is a separate class).
You can figure it out by ear with music theory. You use different terms but who cares. Theory is useful of course but not required.
Tommy Emmanuel apparently learned by transrcibing, famously thinking that both the bass line and guitar lines he was hearing were a singular "guitar part". Just by having his expectations (incorrectly) raised, he rose to the occasion and played both parts.
I forget where I heard this story -- it's probably either rather famous, or buried in an interview somewhere.
The percussionist Trilok Gurtu has said the same thing about listening to many recordings as he was growing up. He just assumed that all the percussion was played by one person, all at once, and so he figured out ways to do it, even when it was 2 or even 3 people with overdubs.
Tommy drew a lot of inspiration from Chet Atkins who was really the pioneer of the bass+guitar "one hand band" style of playing. Tommy just improved on it a lot, adding more rhythmic elements, but to your point, yes, he was largely self-taught and driven to learn.
A good interview on his background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py4T1qv9bnQ
He tells it everywhere. (Also demonstrates the thumb vs fingers playing independently everywhere.)
A variation on this is to use one of the many helpful tools, such as The Amazing Slowdowner. Easily loop over snippets and do the hard work of listening/transcribing, but without faffing around trying to rewind just the right amount.
I learned this way myself without being told. I was gifted a nearly ruined classical guitar that my mom took to a music shop and a guy got into working condition for $20. I then listened to every record, cassette and CD in our house looking for any guitar I could hear, especially individual notes, and learned dozens of songs.
It is painstaking and tedious, but it works. I look back on that time, the first few years I played, and I am genuinely surprised at some of the difficult songs I worked through in this way.
But now, over 30 years later and still playing regularly, I almost never do a note-for-note transcription of other peoples playing. I tend to either just get the gist of the harmony and melody by listening and get into the general ballpark. I often use ultimate guitar or other tab sites just for an outline of the chords (or download sheets from real books for jazz).
But my aim is always to fully memorize a piece, from beginning to end, so I can play it without any reference. That, for me, is the goal. Any way I get there (tabs, sheets, ear, demonstration, etc.) works fine in my books.
Listening and transcribing is an excellent thing to do. But it would be terrible advice to say it's the only thing to do.
Also, I would argue that if you really want the benefit of transcribing, don't write it down until you have memorized whatever chunk you are transcribing - the act of memorizing it and learning it solely by ear is where the real value is.
On the other hand, this is not a good way to learn technique or the fretboard, as the easy keys will be vastly overrepresented, and you don't need to know where you are. That's a challenge that's almost unique to guitar and bass, and getting over that hump requires learning material by note name (whether from scores, tabs, or just chord symbols).
(my bonafides: 35 years playing, gig on sax, bass, piano, and percussion, currently doing an interdisciplinary PhD in music and CS, and running a jazz club night where I perform weekly)
"Keys" and "note names" literally only come up on the guitar when playing open strings. When playing fretted notes, the guitar is a completely relative instrument. You should focus on learning diatonic patterns of tones and semitones on the fretboard directly, not individual notes. It's a completely different method than the piano keyboard, which involves working within a fixed diatonic framework, and altering it to make "transposition" work. This meshes well with solfège and even more so with historical solmization, which are also highly relative methods (being intended originally for the voice).
I play electric and uptight jazz bass. While what you describe is possible for some genres, not knowing keys and the fretboard the same way you know keys on the piano is a non starter for jazz. All the competent jazz guitarists and bassists I know have this down cold. It's table stakes in my world.
> uptight jazz bass
mah man . . . too much of that loosey goosey stuff.
Lol I have to admit, I do play "uptight bass". The Freudian thumb slip got me, ha
Relaxing on that thing is hard! :)
Curious to know more: Where are you doing your interdisciplinary PhD in music + CS?
Thanks
> When you hear the first guitar note, stop the song, find the note on the guitar, and write it down
How do you do that with chords? I know everyone who isn't completely tone deaf can do that with one single note. But when it comes to chords, unless you already know some music theory, aren't there huge number of combinations you have to try before you find the correct one?
Personally prefer to search for guitar tabs of things I can barely play. And also sound terrible while playing them and tense my whole body while doing so. This is the point of playing the guitar, RIGHT?
Nope, the point is collecting as many guitars as possible. ;)
I wish this was a joke. :D :(
You will improve what you practice, possibly. This is advice for learning to play by ear. I was given the exact opposite advice by my classical guitar teacher in college because I was playing one thing and hearing something else. Sometimes, practice makes you worse or is a waste of time at best. If I could give better advice, it would be to be brutally mindful of what you are playing. Record it, and hear what is there. If it isn’t painful, you probably aren’t practicing.
57yo here who started guitar from scratch 16 months ago, with zero musical background. For my fellow players, I'm at the stage where barre chords are playable but switching between them quickly is still tough.
I studied exclusively with an app (Yousician) for the first 13 months, then got a local teacher I see once a week. I practice 45-60 minutes a day and have only missed a few days in the last 16 months.
In my experience, it all comes down to practice. There is no magic forumula or shortcut. The 2000 hours to passable playing is very much accurate. I track that chart nearly perfectly.
It's very much a sprint-plateau experience. This week I was trying to learn the chords in Clapton's "Old Love" and for 6 days I could not switch between them, then on the 7th day I was able to make the leap. There's a bunch of brain science about consolidating memories and such but...it all comes down to practice.
I agree with the sentiment that you have to practice correctly, but even if you learn bad habits, more practice and challenging yourself will weed them out. It's really crucial to always challenge yourself. Practice is doing hard things, not playing things you already know. You have to separate practice from playing, because they're two different things. Yes, there's a value in picking up the guitar and fooling around, but to really get better, you have to challenge yourself constantly.
Guitar is a game of millimeters, to an extent I never appreciated. This is where a local teacher can be hugely helpful. How you position your hand, where your thumb is, the arch in different knuckles, how much you're pressing down, how you are positioning that barring finger, where your right hand is, etc. - it's all extreme fine-tuning.
It's massively rewarding. But the learning curve is brutal. I practice for an hour at mid-day and would never have imagined the incredible health benefits in terms of stress relief. It's an hour (to borrow a Steely Dan quote, albeit not in its original drug context) "time out of mind" where I'm doing something completely orthogonal to the rest of my life, for no reason except to hone a skill and enjoy.
I HIGHLY recommend keeping a journal and noting every day what you did. Day by day you'll think "I'm not improving at all, I suck, maybe I'm getting worse"...then you look and realize how much progress you've made compared to two months ago, etc.
BTW, my daughter, 16, practices half as much as I do or less, yet learns 2-3x as fast because she has a long younger brain.
And because she does less things in her day? Letting the brain process the instrument playing during day and night, not a bunch of other stuff. I’m sure brain age matters a lot but I think it’s a bit overrated. Probably a lot to do with environment as well.
Old Love is such a good song.
It’s in the way that you use it, boy don’t you know.
It's still tabs, but marginally better because you're making your own tabs. Work on hearing the key and chord progression and you won't need tabs. You'll be able to jam with anyone, anytime. It'll take a couple months to get there, but you'll no longer rely on tabs - which I think is the goal.
When you are transcribing a guitar part you have to think about the key, the chords, and how to play the part efficiently. It's a great way to get a better understanding of the neck since there is usually more than one way to play a part.
Had a lot of fun contributing tabs to Ultimate Guitar, esp. when folks would write notes of appreciation. The harder the better - not cheating to slow down the track to understand rapid lick in solos (the Steely Dan ones were a gas) either. You lose a little bit of the magic (little is off limits with some practice) but the fact that you can figure out your favorite tracks and imagine yourself up on stage is fun.
I started learning guitar using tabs. It's good for easily picking up a song, but I found it painful to learn new songs. Everything I played I simply memorized and learning a new song was always a start from scratch.
I mostly play classical guitar and now force myself to get better at sight reading standard music notation. I find it extremely hard but very rewarding because I'm now able to simply pick up a sheet of music and with a couple of tries figure out the basics of a piece. It opens up a whole library of beautiful pieces.
Same, I finally managed to stick with learning standard notation this year after several false starts and I’m kicking myself I didn’t start earlier. There were a few tough moments where it seemed like I’d never get (learning about key signatures, moving past 1st position) but now I’m starting to get comfortable playing up to the 7th position. It’s so nice being able to just buy a big book of Sor or Giuliani or Carcassi studies or even some Bach transcriptions and play them straight out of the book instead of needing to listen to a performance first and then look at the tab.
I'm working on becoming a better piano player and forcing myself to read sheet music. To your point, it's incredibly difficult. To the point that I'm 50/50 about whether I'll ever get good enough for it to matter. I'm learning songs, but in nearly every case I'm mostly memorizing the song. It's really frustrating.
I've been advised to use a keyboard to record my playing without being able to hear it and playing straight from the sheet music. I haven't tried it yet though.
All of it is good but none of it is a shortcut.
The greats who became so good doing this had massive amounts of time to do it and put in massive amounts of effort.
Are you telling me that spending time writing an app to learn the guitar neck isn't the best way?? Blasphemy, I tell you!
Anyway here is my app of shame:
https://kelvie.github.io/chord-finder/
I also came to the realization after making this that my time was better spent transcribing, but I wanted to learn egui (and this was before coding agents, so it actually took some time).
There should be a saying like "A tool is not the task" similar to "A map is not the land." As professional tool makers it can be easy to replace the task with a tool in theory, but that's not reality.
In a similar vein I think that's why there are so many devs making game engines instead of games.
Perhaps you're looking for this?
https://strangestloop.io/essays/things-that-arent-doing-the-...
Maybe? This seems to be more aimed at procrastination. Making map or a tool is still doing a thing, just not the thing.
I've been playing guitar for 30+ years. When I was a kid, I learned almost everything by ear - note by note by note...
In hindsight, once I had learned a song, I had actually learned MUCH more than just that song. It is that "extra" that adds up over time and makes one a guitarist and not just someone who can play some songs on the guitar.
Rock on!
Obscure "learn it by ear" guitar story...
Upon hearing Eruption for the first time, the story goes that Tony MacAlpine learned to play the finger tapping section by PICKING IT because he didn't know finger tapping was a thing. Only after seeing Van Halen in concert did he realize what Eddie was doing.
If memory serves me right, I read this in either Guitar Player or Guitar World magazine back in the late 80s or early 90s. Whether Tony was embellishing or not is unknown.
Similarly, Ben Travers didn't have a delay pedal, so learned to pick the delayed parts on Pink Floyd's "Run like hell" when he was younger, since taken to ludicrous speed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CY0_HG8J5M
By the way Justin had a new video recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gse5EuM_HWU
"I Practiced Wrong for 40 Years?"
How do I get started if I don't even know the notes yet though?
I learned to play guitar this way -- listening to CDs and scrubbing back and forth, writing down what I heard. It's great, but it only gets you so far. Learning pentatonic scales was a step-change for me.
as somebody who practices from tabs I have no idea how I would begin doing this.
Here is a suggestion...
First, figure out the bass line. That typically suggests the chord progression. If you know your chords, then, for simple songs, you have the rhythm figured out.
For solos, it's more tricky. If you aren't familiar with common soloing patterns (licks) and/or scales then start with simple solos and work your way up.
There's some analogy around learning to play a song without using your ears and painting without using your eyes. Like the silliness on the drawing side is obvious. The benefits gained by using your ears to learn music (again this is such a silly statement when you think about it) are so huge and so overlooked by so many beginner guitar players. An hour of learning by ear is worth a week of reading. Also, as I see it, youtube is full of perpetual teachers looking for perpetual students; being a perpetual student sucks. All you need is records.
how to get better: https://berkleepress.com/music/guitar/page/2/
dissect Volume 1, 2 and 3 of A Modern Method for Guitar, no excuses, no cries
I am playing for quite a while... Had private lessons with a coach to practice solo guitar, and general understanding for a couple of years. Before that around 10 years or more as amateur, now it's been 3 years since I spoke to a guitar coach last time.
I play every day, I do my solos, I play blues, I don't need chords. But it's hard.
Just don't underestimate how hard it is - to be able to play any solo by ear. I guess I just don't have any freaking talent. Pretty obvious at this point, since some people do a better progress in 3-5 years of work.
But for me it's not. I realized that for me something isn't just clicking. There was no breakthrough moment I expected all these years.
I invested a lot into playing guitar, but... meh. Honestly, I wish I spent all that time learning AI math or just math in general. Or spend my time on something that would have a better ROI.
Looking back I see how much effort it took, and how low my ROI is. I wish I gave up earlier.
This is a great way of phrasing it -- ROI. My mom is a violin teacher and when I asked her if I could learn, she said "no, you don't have the hands for it". She recommended something like guitar would be better for me.
Not everyone can do everything, nor is everything a good return on investment. If you tell people they can do whatever they want, you are effectively wasting their time. Better to give them some useful advice, e.g. your fingers are better for the guitar, rather than insisting everyone can do everything.
Everyone can do much better than they think though.
My daughter's violin teacher refused to teach any adult because according to him if you're too old you're a lost cause ;) I agree an adult is likely not going to be the world's top violinist but I'm also sure that with enough work you can make vast improvements.
On both the guitar and on the violin you are not magically going to get to your max potential. It requires a lot of work. On the guitar you can get to a point where you can play simple songs relatively quickly. On the violin you do sound awful for much longer so it does require a lot more work to get to a reasonable level. Whether that's worth your time or not depends on you.
It is hard.
I can hear a tune and immediately sing it or whistle it. But I can't immediately play it on the guitar. It's much easier for children than adults.
It's also hard to force yourself to practice the relevant skills. You can play scales all day but that won't necessarily help your ear. What you need is to force your brain to make the connection.
You're getting dunked on a little bit in the replies, but your point of view is important for people to read. Not everyone is capable of learning every skill, and practice is necessary but insufficient. I've been on and off trying to learn a foreign language for decades, and it just doesn't click, no matter what I try (formal lessons, immersion, book study, apps). I used to have the "Just practice, bro" attitude, but I've done a 180 over the years and I have a lot of empathy and understanding now when my own kid complains "I just can't learn this."
It's also about how you practice. It's true that not everyone can get to any level at any skill. But it's also true we underestimate our abilities and potential almost universally. That said where you invest your limited time and what you enjoy and want to work on is totally up to you. But often "I can't do it" is just an excuse or a mindset or not having found the workaround or the right approach (where a teacher can sometimes help).
I mean, it kind of sounds like you hated the whole process and didn't care about the result either. What was your reason for taking up the guitar as a hobby in the first place?
I suspect it's actually impossible to get reasonably good at something without some amount of passion for it, to some degree or another. Most musicians are in it for the thrill of learning something that most people find hard to do, or because they love music, or because they want to be part of a community that values music. Occasionally because they think they can make money at it.
I play an instrument or two, but only for fun. I love music, but I'm at a point in my life where I will never be good enough to be in a band. I have enough other hobbies anyway. I take a random 15 minutes out of my day to play a few songs, maybe practice a new song I'm learning, watch a short Youtube video about it here and there, and that's enough for me.
I can't imagine you can do it for many years without a passion. I'm saying that when it comes to playing an insrument, there is definitely a concept of a talent involved. If you're not talented, you ain't gonna reach stars even if you spend 10-15 years doing it with passion.
Loving musing doesn't mean you can play it.
Why did you continue playing for over a decade?
I was always pretty curious about what's gonna happen next :) Like one year more into that - will it make me fundamentally better or not? If you understand fretboard - will it make you better or not? If you learn the scales, if you practice them, etc... I was (and still am) looking for something that would hopefully glue all of that together.
Don't get me wrong, I produced a couple of songs, some people say they're pretty good. But honestly, it's a crap.
I'm a new player so I'm not asking this to be snarky but to understand. How can you think you don't need chords? It seems to me, 5 months into my journey, that chords are a fundamental aspect of guitar. It sounds like someone taking up golf but saying they don't need putts. Can you help me understand?
Practice a lot. Try things you "can't play" and do them a lot. Pick it up every every single day.
Reminded me of that scene in “le peril jeune”, a french movie about kids growing up in the 70s
Learn to play by ear. Practice scales. Practice arpeggios. Learn open chords. Learn barre chords. Learn moveable shapes. Learn to move among chord shapes. Practice with a metronome. Find people to play with. Learn to read music. Learn to sight read. Do all of these things and you will be a musician.
Is there any quick test I can do to see if I can innately determine tones like this? If I fail said test, I can know that I'm not cut out for guitar.
There are a bunch of ear training quizzes online and I believe also YouTube videos.
I don't think this is a general requirement for learning the guitar. It's just one aspect. For most people whether you can hear that something is a 3rd or a 5th shouldn't impact their ability to play songs and have fun on the guitar. A sense of rhythm is maybe more important. If you can whistle a tune or sing along anywhere close to a song you're probably ok.
Good advice.
I’m a banjo player. Starting with tab ( and playing for myself ) quickly got me to a certain level and then ingrained some bad habits. Playing by ear is much better.
One way that seems to work really well:
1. Listen to the song, tap the rhythm to learn it.
2. Figure the chord progression.
3. Using standard rolls ( sequence of notes, one measure ) find how to fit in melody notes
The Way I Learn Now: Listening & Transcribing
I lived near a music school and took proper guitar lessons. After getting down the basics from the Alfred Method book, this was the homework my guitar teacher gave me.
Coincidentally enough, I was also transcribing RATM back then too...
> When you hear the first guitar note, stop the song, find the note on the guitar, and write it down
I think the problem for me is I’m so tone deaf I can’t tell which note is the right note.
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TLDR: practice. If you have sufficient natural talent xor will, you will eventually go past the canon of available material and begin to transcribe your own. Then there are those who move to creation, either immediately or somewhere in the path.