DBASE on the Kaypro II
stonetools.ghost.io58 points by TMWNN 3 days ago
58 points by TMWNN 3 days ago
I note that Clarion is still being developed, version 12 was released last year. I remember fondly using its screen designer to create drop-shadowed dialogs.
My introduction to databases was via dBASE III Plus, shortly followed by Clipper Summer '87, and Clipper 5.x (already OOP and some C++ like constructs).
The change to VB/Access and SQL later on took some mind shifting as the concepts on how to design a database are quite different.
Additionally it is quite remarkable the productivity that xBase offered, for a constrained environment like MS-DOS, in an automatic memory managed language, with AOT compilation (when using Clipper, FoxPro and co).
>> The prompt starts at the first field and <RETURN> (not <TAB> !) moves to the next.
This is hilarious to me, because times have certainly changed.
When we first started shipping Windows software the big complaint from users was the use of Tab to switch fields, while Return triggered the default button (usually Save or Close).
The change, for users used to DOS was painful - not least when capturing numbers as the numeric key pad has Enter not Tab.
Software developers either stood firm, convincing customers to learn Tab, or caved and aliased the Enter key to the Tab key. Even today I still find that option here and there in Software that's been around a while...
> not least when capturing numbers as the numeric key pad has Enter not Tab.
And “Enter” isn’t “Return”.
I don’t know how the PC and PC software did it, but the Mac, when it got a numeric keypad, discriminated between return (on the alphanumeric keyboard) and enter (on the keypad), and software did discriminate between the two.
Author here, and thanks for reading. I'm glad to hear stories from a developer POV about those days. It's interesting uncovering subtle interface changes as I investigate various applications. It makes sense to me to not use Return for fields, especially when fields could gradually accommodate longer and longer blocks of text. Being able to naturally type multiple paragraphs, say for a "Notes" field in a database, would make sense.
Yes, it makes sense when viewed like that, and was probably a necessary change.
DOS chose Enter though because in those days mist data capture was numbers. Lots and lots of numbers. Data capturers could track the left hand down the column (so keeping place on yhe paper) any type with the right. Enter is right there in the keypad so only one hand needed.
Switching to Tab means 2 hands needed on the keyboard, so difficult to keep track on the paper.
Typically also, on DOS screens there was very little multi-line entry. Addresses were multiple entry fields, and so on. Tab was pretty much not used (outside of word processing).
If I went back now, to design the standard keyboard, I'd add dedicated "Next" and "Previous" buttons on the numeric keypad. No need for Enter there.
But that's design with a lot of hindsight...
> MAME has no printer emulation, which I like to use for a more holistic retro computing experience.
That's wrong. I haven't tried it with the Kaypro emulation, but here's a video showing the mc68000 computer printing to an emulated Epson ActionPrinter 2000: https://streamable.com/rvenyx
It's also possible to print to a text file.
In a moment of serendipity, I was about 30 minutes into watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYU3CQomE5M
I had memories of Foxpro and Clipper on my mind, when I found myself in this rabbit hole.
According to users of the Kaypro II from that time, it was a very robust machine. It was even used on the 1984 Paris Dakar edition.
This is awesome. Loved the training video as well.
It’s kind of cool to see people putting in the effort to learn 30 commands and becoming masters of their own destiny. I guess it’s the same sense of mastery that Excel users have today.
What’s the dBase II/III equivalent today?
Thank you, I'm glad you liked the article.
Hopefully someone more learned than myself about modern database programming will chime in. I'm not sure what current system offers both the database and development features in such a seamless package. That said, on the Mastodon post for this article, I was told, "Learning dBASE isn't for naught" and was directed to https://xharbour.org/ as a modern dBASE/Clipper implementation. (haven't had a chance to try it yet, personally)
> What’s the dBase II/III equivalent today?
Salesforce, firebase or Supabase etc., but, all are SAAS platforms. Not sure if there is any other platform where you can do database and applications that you can host yourself.
Access, FileMaker are still around, or if you going SaaS, something like Airtable, I guess.
Love the guy trying to crush his red telephone handset in the CP/M-86 ad. I assume he’s just been told he has to reenter the Kermit assembler code and start again.
"Author here" is the new "You're absolutely right"
Since someone else posted my article instead of me, I felt compelled to clarify who I am. Just trying to navigate social media waters to the best of my ability.