Clean-room implementation of Half-Life 2 on the Quake 1 engine
code.idtech.space211 points by klaussilveira 6 hours ago
211 points by klaussilveira 6 hours ago
Not related to the engine, but it reminded me of a demake of Half-Life 2 in Quake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhuXHGb_4vU
Super interesting! I'm curious what the purpose is, though?
Edit to answer myself: Looks like this is more of an offshoot of the FreeHL projects by the same author, which rewrite GoldSrc game logic to QuakeC to get those games to run on open source engine stacks, where the utility is more obvious. I guess it was just fun to see how hard it'd be to get HL2 content running.
A bit similar to the OpenMW project working on Oblivion and Skyrim content loading on the side, though perhaps that's a more obvious future vector for that project.
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Someone did something interesting to them and shared it with the world. That you feel is a waste of time does not add to the conversation and more broadly acts as a chilling effect on others who might want to share their interests.
When it comes to something like this, mom's advice is golden: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything."
It's a waste of time made necessary ONLY because of copyright law. As I explained.
As is THIS ENTIRE COMMENT THREAD.
And 10,000x other comment threads exactly like it, with you fools arguing back and forth for 300 pages about the subject.
What a complete waste of time and energy. Thanks, copyright law.
I'm also wonder why, but who cares, it's cool and fun. If someone wants to spend their time doing it, great. It's a lot more valuable than the time you spent writing that disparaging comment.
Tho I also disagree with you, I just want to point out the many HN guidelines[1] you are violating:
> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
> Don't be curmudgeonly. Thoughtful criticism is fine, but please don't be rigidly or generically negative.
> Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
I don't think downvoting your comment is super useful either but there are elements of how you are interacting that are not related to your argument that you could change to be less likely to be downvoted.
Everything you said is 1000% true. The butt hurt from people downvoting and flagging you are crabs in a bucket and people who are ontologically wrong about everything. Unironically.
The rules here suck. Dang is a bad admin. YC is rotten to the core.
I'm curious, what value do you actually derive from the website? Why stay?
Impressive, given how old Q1 engine is. It brings back memories of Paranoid Doom mod: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/par...
>The game is not playable from start to finish. You can play deathmatch and other odd modes.
Interesing, there's more here including HL1 (a.k.a "valve")
Funnily enough the looks of this HL2 through this engine makes it flow more with HL1 than I could expect; an interesting reverse Half Life: Source / Black Mesa / demake of sorts.
Even simple Half-Life 1 mods built on textures and models from Half-Life 2 look much closer to 2 than one would expect. For example this mod, but not only:
https://moddb.com/mods/half-life-dark-future
You won't confuse it with modern Half-Life 2, but the original HL2 engine had far worse graphics than the latest version. Makes you realize how much of the difference between HL2 and HL1 is due to different textures and level design.
And Viktor Antonov (rip) art style.
edit: there is also the fact that map compilers for gold source games have advanced far beyond what they could do back in 1999. The lightmaps and light sources alone can be far more intricate nowadays than what you would get from the official valve ones in 1999.
I used to do a bit of mapping back then (nothing that survived to this day, thankfully); as I recall, practically nobody used official map compilers. As it often happens, the community wrote replacements that were much faster for debug "-O0" builds, and generated lightmaps of a significantly higher quality for the release "-O2" builds.
It was either ZHLT or VLHT, or something like that; looks like more alternatives have been written since then.
The lighting is one of the main area's that really improved a lot.
For standard Q1 mapping ericw tools [0] is great (the page has some nice previews).
This project seems to use Nuclide for building which by default uses vmap compiler [1][2]. Which is really Q3 but I think FTE handles that well internally as the newer format has some more modern features.
> Powerful BSP compiler. Use VMAP to bake levels like you're used to from similar engine technology, with high quality lightmaps, cubemap-based environment mapping and adjustable vertex colors on spline-based meshes.
[0] https://ericwa.github.io/ericw-tools/
[1] https://developer.vera-visions.com/d4/d50/radiant.html#autot...
There was a similar path with Unreal3. The early games (2006) lighting looks quite harsh by modern standards, one of the highlights of Mirror's Edge (2008) was DICE using third party Illuminate's "beast" lighting, then Epic moved to "lightmass" around 2009 with the public UDK toolset.
The other thing though is that Original Quake Back In The Day ran on a Pentium 75 (needed the maths co-processor) with a dumb framebuffer. All the rasterising of polygons was pure software, as was all the geometry processing. Running GLQuake was a huge improvement but it required an expensive add-in card that piggybacked onto your VGA card, and a whole different binary.
Now you can just kind of pile it into a block of RAM, aim a chunky ASIC at it, and pull the trigger every frame.
In the late 90s a mate of mine did a phenomenal video of a Quake demo (you could record all player movements and camera positions as a "dem file") that he'd rendered out, raytraced in POVRay. I printed it to VHS for him as part of a showreel, and never thought to keep a copy myself.
Is this the way we can have HL3 also?
FTE barely qualifies as a pure Quake engine at this point though, it does tons of stuff.
It does a lot, yes, but also is very much a continuation of the original codebase - i've spent quite some time tinkering with internals of it.
Yeah, but Half Life 2's Source engine was itself a continuation of Goldsrc which was itself a continuation of the Quake 1 engine. The lineage is there but beyond a certain point it's not really Quake anymore.
GZDoom/UZDoom is a similar grey area, it is built on the original Doom codebase but they've added so many features that it's practically its own distinct engine now. Those forks can even render arbitrary 3D models, which OG idTech couldn't do until Quake.
We'd have to come up with definition of quake :-) FTE has a lot bolted on it but the focus us in Quake, quake mods, lifting some limitations and making mod dev convenient.
But it is the same overall code structure, the same game, etc.
All these oss quake engines, are they quake? Ironwail, quakespasm vkQuake?
I think the litmus test is weather they are backwards compatible with old maps/campaigns from the original engine/game.
Half-Life 2 sure won't play quake maps nor will it play hl1 maps.
> Half-Life 2 sure won't play quake maps nor will it play hl1 maps.
Not without modifications but Half-Life: Source is essentially a tech demo to show that they can be ported easily (if you are OK with dropping some pesky features like randomized wall textures).
AFAIK hl1 maps needs to be open in hammer, tweaked a bit and then recompiled to function in hl2. You also better have those originals .rmfs rather than a .map or a even worse, a .bsp :)
Qames/quake from 9front =). It can run LibreQuake with Malice as a MODs, and that's it. Quake, Quakeworld and everything for vanilla, no modern changes like QuakeSpasm or worse, DarkPlaces. If someone backported HL2 to the original Quake with reduced physics and still run under a Pentium III fast enough, it would be something astonishing.
I see impressive stuff with reimplementations such as Surreal Engine, but they will require far more powerful machines.
If Surreal had a software renderer (not requiring AVX or similar) running under an SSE2 machine, that would yield even more respect, because if your reimplemented engine runs in legacy machines the portability would explode. Just have a look on Scummvm on how many platforms and OSes can it run. Or the Super Mario port for PC, where some fork supports even 3DFX under DOS, and GL 1.2. Thus runnable under TinyGL with no 3D accelerators and even under Plan9/9front with custom tweaks.
Half-Life 2 looks incredible in Quake 1, what gives?
Quake's engine is open source and for example nvidia used it in some more recent tech demos, although this one's for Quake 2: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/quake-ii-rtx-v1-2-...
Quake 2 was when they added multi-colored lighting - it's really aged well.
SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
Seems to be using a dnsft.cloud.zyxel.com certificate. Is this a home router?
https://community.zyxel.com/en/discussion/23595/why-i-get-bl...
Seems like you or someone upstream of you uses a Zyxel brand device that has some kind of dns content filtering enabled. You should be able to get around this on a given machine by configuring an alternate dns provider (dns over https, cloudflare's 1.1.1.1, google's 8.8.8.8, quad9's 9.9.9.9, etc.) or doing something similar at your own router/dns resolver/dhcp server if it's not the thing doing this.
I certainly don't get that cert. I'm seeing a LetsEncrypt cert for idtech.space with various SANs.
# host code.idtech.space
code.idtech.space is an alias for idtech.space.
idtech.space has address 192.99.32.215
idtech.space has IPv6 address 2607:5300:60:47d7::Maybe you are MITM`d?
Ah. Looks like it is being blocked by my corporate software.
Thx for the replies.
De-makes are interesting because they continuously seem to show what may have been possible long ago in ancient engines if teams pushed them even further.
Then again maybe that level of detail even in idtech1 would have required more computing than was available for many years.
I do suspect this would not run well on a 75 Mhz Pentium 1. It would be very surprising if Quake 1 was actually the pinnacle of what as possible on the hardware of the time, though. id made exactly one game targeting that generation of hardware, and then their next game had meaningfully higher system requirements despite coming out only a year later. The hardware capabilities were changing so fast that there simply wasn't time to iterate on a specific target.
Would it work under vanilla quake 1? Ah, no. I can't check it out.
Good job keeping me away with Anubis, btw.
Are you a LLM?
No, just a 9front user with a web browser, Netsurf. I shouldn't need JS to read an article you know.
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