X210Ai is a new motherboard to upgrade ThinkPad X201/200
tpart.net190 points by walterbell 2 days ago
190 points by walterbell 2 days ago
hello,
as always: imho (!)
i own a x200s ... bought it in march of 2009 =?> so its approaching 17 years ...
it was a really great device with one of the best keyboards for a small notebook. and i still use it multiple times a week for example to browse hackernews, reddit, ... or watch some video etc.
buuuut: its nearly 17 years old ... everything is starting to wear - i wouldn't invest a dime into it right now.
what do i mean by that: keyboard has faulting keys, case starts breaking at heavily stressed regions - for example around the cursor-keys -, display is (slightly) mechanically damaged, batteries are beyond usefull etc.etc. ...
just my 0.02€
I also have an x200s that I got new in 2009. I've replaced the keyboard, battery (multiple times), palm rest, upper shell, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting about. I haven't put new parts on it for a few years, but as recent as ~2020 they were very easy to get and affordable. My little x200s is a dedicated HaikuOS machine now and I hope it keeps running for another two decades!
I don't know about the X200S, but I had several X200 non-S, with Coreboot, up until recently, and they were worth repairing, as evidenced by resale value.
(New keyboards are inexpensive (at least before tariffs), the replacement palmrest plastic part can be found and very easily replaced, you can still get batteries for them. And if you have a pressure mark on the LCD, apparently that's not a showstopper. Add a $20 SSD and max. the RAM, and it's better than new.)
My understanding with this project is they also replace the screen and battery with newer parts e.g. higher resolution, or at least that's an option, and all the ports are new (it's a new motherboard). So really the only 'old' parts are the keyboard and chassis. My understanding is there's lots of cheap replacements for the keyboard floating out there given the mass production and the original intention for this device to be easily serviceable by IT departments instead of "RMA everything."
What's a good alternative to 2010 Thinkpad X200 series, with potential for coreboot support?
Can't recommend starlabs enough, fully replaceable everything, coreboot, modern specs, Linux compat, firmware over lvfs
Thanks for the rec, didn't know they had moved on from Clevo designs to their own board design made by Quanta/Compal/Wistrom etc.
Didn't know they were rebadging in the past, they've been using their own hardware designs for at least 6 years.
I looked into that category (of small and lightweight laptops, for travel) earlier this year, without the coreboot requirement. I ended up with a Panasonic Let's Note SZ6-CF. Also cheap - imported from Japan via eBay - I think it is better than the X200 series in almost every way, newer, faster, lighter. It might also have a better display than the default of the thinkpads. Only drawback: soldered memory (a crime against the longevity of those machines).
If you're interested in something of an even higher degree of robustness and are fine with an ARM device, check out the MNT Reform Next: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next
I really wish we could get an MNT device with upstream support, if not an x86 processor. Having used the Pocket Reform, I think about it quite often. It's almost perfect.... but the ARM chip and all the warts that come with SoC crap basically is the one single thing that keeps me from using one.
Open Arm devices sadly live in the shadow of closed Apple Mac Mini perf and battery life, and Asahi is stuck at 2022 M2 SoC. Some older Arm Chromebooks have mainline Linux support and also run coreboot. Qualcomm and MediaTek/Nvidia are "maybe next year" Linux and closed firmware.
"Open" is a misnomer, I really wish people would stop throwing it around with regards to ARM systems because it's a serious problem. Apple's devices are no better or worse about this. It's just the nature of the SoC ecosystem.
> Apple Mac Mini perf and battery life
Battery life? You mean the macbook, not the mini, right?
Speaking candidly, if both MNT devices and Apple's devices had perfect upstream support, I'd choose MNT every time regardless of battery life or performance. On a trivial level, I like the design language more, I prefer to buy boutique, etc.
For actual material considerations, MNT overbuilds their stuff to a ridiculous degree. That's what I want out of a laptop more than anything. There's a sense when holding the pocket reform that you could yeet it full send onto the pavement and you'll just scratch the shell. I like that. It might not necessarily be true, but there's a sense of solidity I get from an MNT device that I don't get from an Apple device. I'll take almost any drawback to have something that's overbuilt to hell, and I'll pay a pretty penny for it. The one thing that keeps me away is being locked into a specific distro. If the distribution was minimalist like KISS or Void, or if it was FreeBSD or OpenBSD, this qualm disappears. MNT unfortunately runs a Debian fork, that's a non-starter for me.
> If the distribution was minimalist like KISS or Void
Seems like you can install Arch on an MNT device. [1]
[1]: https://community.mnt.re/t/install-arch-linux-arm-on-mnt/742...
Yes, also had one and it was decent for its time, but it’s not great, especially compared to anything you can get today.
Currently $1,299.00 for the Ultra 7 and $1,449.00 for the Ultra 9. I won't say it isn't a fair price, but it is a really hard one.
It would be perhaps more interesting to start making ARM or maybe even RISC-V motherboard replacements for some of these beloved chassis.
It's not the type of CPU that is driving up the cost. It's a niche hobby product which will sell O(tens-hundreds) units worldwide. The issue with these frankenpads is the brokenness of bios/ec, tb ports, thermals, fan noise, stability, etc.
Agreed. I would love just a basic ports carrier board with a compute module slot for any Raspberry Pi CM for my old and ancient thinkpads.
This is a small shop. Given complexity I'd say the price is a steal. You certainly couldn't make it at that price in the West. Probably 2-10 times more expensive.
Would it help small shops if there were open schematics for laptop motherboards, like OpenCompute does for servers? Coreboot and other open firmware (e.g. EC2) could then target that "open" motherboard, even if the shipped board designs had 10% non-open customization for business differentiation.
There is a risc-v motherboard for the famrwork 13 but different reviewers agree that is overall a slow cpu, nit really competitive. Probably in a few (cpu) generations…
I love the x220 chassis, I wonder what it’d take to make a board with a modern risc chip and open firmware for Linux for this sort of thing.
anybody know if this motherboard will fit the x220 or x230, or just the x200/201? i've cornered the market on x220 and x230, i must have two dozen
Won't fit, the X200/201 use a different chassis design to the X220/230.
I never understood why laptops brands have so many SKUs and change chassis design on every generation. When I compare both internally and externally my personal thinkpad from 2019 to the one my company is providing me since last june, I don't see any outstanding difference that justify having incompatible mainboard, keyboard, trackpad, screen, hinges or even fans. It looks like they change the layout and parts dimensions for the sake of changing it.
It are only minor changes.
Recent ThinkPads are close to be identical: X280 - X13 Gen3 (minor change: 16:10 with X13 Gen1).
X13 Gen 4 - Gen 6 are sadly nearly identical, especially the ugly camera bump which is not required. No camera needs that space and video conference systems cannot used the full resolution.
Luckily sometimes the batteries are compatible.
Dissapointing. The X220 is built well and has a great keyboard. Any idea why the focus on the X200/201 instead of the X220/230?
Speculation on my part, but the X220/230 had a simplified design (e.g. clickpad, no lid latch, fewer blinkenlights) compared to the X200/201. These FrankenPad mods are typically for die hard classic ThinkPad fans.
I have no idea why they did, but some pros: X200 is less expensive, (I think) it has a little more room, and it doesn't have the X220's crazy design flaw with the lid shell.
I also had better luck getting genuine replacement keyboards for the X200. Half of the X220 keyboards I stockpiled arrived as substandard garbage, even though I was trying to avoid that.
What's the lid shell design flaw (did a little googling couldn't find it)?
According to https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1d13sb6/should_i_...:
> - Display lid is very fragile at the top where the wifi antennas are and can easily crack there
Yes, if you look at a photo of the X220 lid, what looks like a cosmetic accent across the lid near screen-top is actually a seam, between the nice alloy traditional lid, and some plastic that's barely held on, painted to look the same. Even minor impact can break the little plastic screw hole tabs that hold the screen-top edge of the lid. Absolutely not what you want from a ThinkPad, which has a legacy of being durable.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd....
A disappointing thing about this is that someone changed the design, to this, to be more fragile and non-ThinkPad. In this way, it's similar to the series of regression changes to the keyboard, and now the TrackPoint.
Wow that's so cool.
I wonder what those hackers are going to do when every case is cracked and every keycap worn out :)
Sorry for my cluelessness, but why is this laptop so popular?
It's small, sturdy, maintainable, and aesthetically pleasing. And one can still get (original) parts. Throw in enthusiast projects like this and you can have your own "Laptop of Theseus".
https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Old_ThinkPad_Niches
You can CTRL+F for the model and see that the x201 tics many of the boxes for desirable traits in older Thinkpads.
The keyboard is absolutely glorious, for one.
And that’s about it, I’d say! I find that everything else is really, really bad. It creaks, it wobbles, it warps, and it did so from day 1. The fan is loud and kicks in quite early. Well maybe the X200 isn’t as bad, but the X220 certainly is. And even after 14 years, it still smells when it gets hot.
Sorry for the rant. I really want to love it, but I just can’t.
Yet after 14 years you still have it and use it?
Quality also went down while with later models - back in 2014 I was laptop shopping, based on the X2xx series reputation I tested an X240 and it was crap, even the keyboard was super bad, I ended up getting a Dell xps13 whose keyboard was miles better and it still works today.
Well "use it" is a bit of a stretch. I’m a bit of a device hoarder. It's one of my experimentation platforms for Linux stuff, currently running Fedora Kinoite (with Universal Blue).
My daily driver (of sorts, don’t really need a laptop anymore) is a MacBook Pro Late 2013, with NixOS. It’s so much better in every regard, it’s not even funny. It also still has its original battery.
For a laptop keyboard...
Not really! It’s just good. I guarantee you it’s better than the keyboard 95% of people have on their desktop computers.
Mine still works as well as expected after 17 years, 5-6 of which it spent with heavy daily use, another 2-3 with light use, only occasionally afterwards, and overall a lot of travel and airports. I could disassemble and reassemble it to the last screw easily, no special tools besides a screwdriver, no glue, upgradeable RAM and storage. Actually my one major complaint is Lenovo's use of whitelisting for wireless cards.
But I wouldn't pay $1300+ to bring it up to speed. The batteries are done, the screen is small and the backlight is yellowed and dimming. That laptop would need a lot more love to make it fully usable as a daily driver so I'd rather keep it as it is, as a memory.
Mine x200 still my daily driver. Only had to replace the battery and the charger so far.
If they do a new display/digitizer for an X230T which uses the newer Wacom styluses, I'd probably not be able to resist.
As it is, I panic-purchased a second Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 when I was worried that there wouldn't be a Book 4 Pro 360 (they are now on a Book 5 Pro 360)....
I have an older-gen aftermarket-mobo X210 (Kaby Lake iirc?) and I really really loved it, but the eDP flex-PCB for the upgraded screen eventually gave out (stock screen was LVDS), making the display only work at the one exact hinge angle where the broken trace still makes contact. The inability to just go to a storefront and buy that part is why I switched to a Framework 12 instead.
I owned one of the predecessor about a decade ago, the X62 upgrade to the X61! It was extremely expensive for what it was and I saved up for a while. But it was such a fun experience, felt like the original framework laptop. I got to swap out the screen too
The x200 was a really neat machine. They run great with linux mint - I have mine running as a home assistant server for our house since my raspberry pi died with flash card corruption.
Is the X200s (s = low power variant) chassis too different or is it compatible as well?
Cool project, but if you can get the same spec'ed laptop with warranty on a slightly worse keyboard for less than this hack-job, i think i would prefer a new (thinkpad) laptop
Anyone know if there's anything like this for the Dell Precision M6600?
(Or upgrade suggestions for someone who loved that laptop? Framework? Thinkpad?)
Get an x1 carbon gen 13 (lunar lake version) for a general usable laptop. For clunkers/workstations that use desktop style CPUs, Dell still makes them and so does Lenovo. The Lenovo version is P16 Gen 3.
> upgrade suggestions for someone who loved that laptop?
The repair-friendly [0] StarBook and StarFighter line might interest you. They generally seem good value for money and ship worldwide. Here's a 96g DDR5 + Intel Core Ultra 7 configuration at ~$2200: https://starlabs.systems/products/starbook-ultra?variant=552...
Their funder/backer is a mystery (to me) though.
[0] https://support.starlabs.systems/what-is-the-star-labs-limit...
Seconded. Coreboot and lvfs firmware upgrades and completely repairable with inventory parts.
I'm the owner of one of these laptops. I paid like $2-3k or even more for the laptop. The screen got broken almost on arrival. I think few days later it started glitching. It was intermittent, so I thought it would go away. I didn't. Over time it started glitching more and more. I reached out to the person in China who sold the laptop. In broken English he told me that I should replace the screen and sent me a link. I bought the screen, actually two of them, since for some reason you can't buy one. Turned out that the screen doesn't fit, and I cracked the first one while trying to install. So now I have a laptop without a screen, and it just doesn't work.
I bought Macbook Air for $1k just one week ago. I can't be more happier. Fuck these ThinkPads.
I'm a bit confused, what do you mean you bought it for +$2k? They cost nothing to buy, they came out like 18 years ago
I think parent poster had an X1 or something and assumed the conversation was about a similar contemporary device.
I'm a little sad this board isn't for my X220 ... I would be sorely tempted if it were - but like other posters I'd have some reservations about things like battery life even so.
By the (contemporary) by, a Mac Book is probably a better buy if you like Mac OS (I don't) because the hardware really is excellent. One physical point in favour of the modern Thinkpad though is weight - a MacBook Air is about 1.2 kg, whereas the X1 is not quite 1 kg.
> what do you mean you bought it for +$2k?
You can buy the hardware already upgraded with a new motherboard and screen.
You paid how much? I use my x200 every day and love it but never considered I could sell it for so much. Is that really a normal price for such an old model? My screen works perfectly too.
They only cost this much with the new parts fitted.
Various versions have been on sale for 5+ years, often billed as the X2100.
https://bmdiethelmv.wordpress.com/2021/07/02/thinkpad-x2100-...
As a counter-experience, I bought five of the x63s and was so paranoid I’d bork the screens somehow. They all work fine to this day. :shrug:
You paid $2-3k for an x200? Was that a long time ago? Is that the same laptop that's sold by computer recyclers for $100?
Sounds great, but the website is down.
What's the integrated video card in this board? I have an x220 and frankly the ancient Intel HD 3000 is the only limiting factor keeping me from still using it as a daily laptop.
That comes with the processor: Ultra 7 165H or Ultra 9 185H, so https://www.notebookcheck.com/Intel-Arc-8-Cores-Grafikkarte-..., really strong I think.
This is super cool!
Someone do this to the X230T.
ALL OTHER 2:1 TABLETS ARE INFERIOR.
The HP ZBook X2 G4 leaves it in the dust, both conceptually (detachables are a superior form factor) and specs-wise; HP EliteBook 27xxp machines with similar guts are at least on par.
I'd rather have a new and smaller (10" to 13") version of the ZBook X2 G4 instead, upgrade the Dreamcolor display, keep the Wacom EMR digitzer and a sensible dedicated pro-GPU with certified drivers, and add plenty of ECC-RAM. Abracadabra, dream machine right there. Lenovo could do the same with their X12 detachable line if they had some semblance of sense.
Nope. Open, Twist, Close. No change in viewpoint.
Every other 2:1 tablet requires changing perspective. Like walking into a different room and forgetting what you wanted to do.
So built a t-hinge keyboard for the detachable, et cetera.
The results are in: Nothing on the market equates to the elegant simplicity, adaptability and haptic qualities of a detachable done right, which can be used as a tablet (with or without an external keyboard), or in several laptop modes (depending on the implementation of the keyboard attachment, e. g. with or without t-hinge), or just/also as a screen when connecting a expandable dock/computer (e. g. Nintendo Switch-like). A machine in that form factor can scale from smartphone-sized to a ~13-incher; everything above is too big and cumbersome.
Besides, as the other chap in the thread mentioned, the X61T is a superior chassis to the X230T anyway. :)
Being the best 2:1 tablet is like winning the NIT. The 4:3 X61T is clearly the GOAT.
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