Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?
orb.net269 points by jamies 2 days ago
269 points by jamies 2 days ago
I did some experimentation with UniFi hubs and came to the conclusion that if you can give each device its own WiFi channel that would be ideal -- contention is that bad and often an uncontended channel with otherwise poor characteristics will beat a contended channel that otherwise looks good.
The other bit of advice that is buried in there that no-one wants to hear for residences is the best way to speed up your Wi-Fi is to not use it. You might think it's convenient to have your TV connect to Netflix via WiFi and it is, but it is going to make everything else that really needs the Wi-Fi slower. It's a much better answer to hook up everything on Ethernet that you possibly can than it is to follow the more traveled route of more channels and more congestion with mesh Wi-Fi.
> The other bit of advice that is buried in there that no-one wants to hear for residences is the best way to speed up your Wi-Fi is to not use it. You might think it's convenient to have your TV connect to Netflix via WiFi and it is, but it is going to make everything else that really needs the Wi-Fi slower. It's a much better answer to hook up everything on Ethernet that you possibly can than it is to follow the more traveled route of more channels and more congestion with mesh Wi-Fi.
Absolutely. Everything other than cell phones and laptops-not-at-a-desk should be on Ethernet.
I had wires run in 2020 when I started doing even more video calls. Huge improvement in usability.
The house I live in was built with ethernet, but of the fourteen outlets the builders saw fit to include, not one is located where we can make use of it. The two devices in our house which use a wired connection are both plugged directly into the switch in our utility closet.
(We do have one internet-connected device which permanently lives about an inch away from one of the ethernet sockets, but it is, ironically, a wifi-only device with no RJ45 port.)
Some friends live in a rental that they’ve decorated well. It wasn’t until multiple visits that I realized they had run Ethernet throughout the house.
You can get skinny Ethernet cables that bend easily. If you get some that match your paint, and route them in straight lines, those can be unobtrusive. Use tricks like running the cables along baseboards and other trim pieces. If you really want to minimize the visual impact you can use cable runners and paint over them. The cables are not attention-grabbing compared to furniture or art on the wall.
If you’re willing to drill holes (if you terminate the cable yourself, the hole can be narrow), you can pass the cables through walls. If you don’t want to drill, you can go under a door.
If you’ve got fourteen outlets, it seems like there ought to be some solution to get cables everywhere you need.
I use to wire houses. (Here all wires go in tubes.) The absurdity of not adding a few empty tubes for later use endlessly amazed me.
I think I've done only one house where the owner wanted to be able to put speakers in every corner of every room on every floor with multiple possible locations for his stereo.
Then he wanted multiple cable tv connections per room, multiple sockets for landlines, Ethernet everywhere.
The speaker tube was left empty and a few short distance sockets didn't have wires in them.
It seemed excessive even to me but it isn't actually a lot of work to run 5 tubes in stead of 1. You might add 1-2% to the renovation bill. Even less for a new house.
The end result was wonderful. He could do his chores with music all over the house. Move his TV sofa bed or desk where ever he wanted.
Doing this after the house is finished is more expensive, it takes a lot more work and the result is inferior.
I think nowadays we should have an USB socket next to each power outlet that provides both internet and extra fast charging. In reality I've never even seen such socket.
With a few small updates Android could switch off wifi and mobile networking and seamlessly switch to calling over <s>wifi</s> wired internet when you plug in the charging cable.
Who knows, maybe the mobile phone could even be a first class citizen in the landline network.
My current house is a new build. It’s a spec home, so customization was limited but I really regret not going overboard with the wiring. Next time I’m getting low voltage power to every window (electric blinds), coax and conduit to the attic (TV antennas and maybe ham antennas), Ethernet to the front door (video doorbell) and the eaves (networked cameras) and the ceiling in every room (WAP, presence sensors, probably lots of other things), and more circuits than I think I need to the basement (homelab). At the time, they were asking $150 per additional outlet, which seemed crazy so I got stingy. In retrospect, I wish I had rolled $10k in wiring into the mortgage. Oh well. Maybe next time.
> I think nowadays we should have an USB socket next to each power outlet that provides both internet and extra fast charging. In reality I've never even seen such socket.
I've seen power outlets with embedded USB power adapters. I think I've seen usb ethernet adaptets with embedded USB power for like chromecasts and similar. But not both smooshed into the same outlet. It might be problematic because nobody wants to mix low voltage and high voltage together in the wall. But it's technically feasible.
> With a few small updates Android could switch off wifi and mobile networking and seamlessly switch to calling over <s>wifi</s> wired internet when you plug in the charging cable.
I'm not sure you need updates. I think if the adapter exposes as usb cdc-ethernet that would likely work out of the box, and there may be drivers for specific usb nics available as well; I haven't checked, but this is a thing that is used by ChromeCast devices and AndroidTV devices, so it should also work on Android. Seamlessness is maybe in the air, but if it's seamless from wifi to cellular, it should be better going from wired to something else, because wired has an unambigious and timely disconnect signal.
> Who knows, maybe the mobile phone could even be a first class citizen in the landline network.
IMHO there's less value here; the landline network has degraded and there's not really any first class citizens anymore. Few people retain landlines, and those that remain tend to be ATAs in the home; if you care to use that with an android, there's likely better options than interfacing with the analog side.
Power-only usb next to nema is common and convenient.
Power with network is less common since nobody wants to mix high and low voltage runs.
https://www.amazon.ca/TOPGREENER-Ultra-High-Speed-Receptacle...
I did this years ago using the very thin (3mm, round) Unifi Patch Cables in white. Very clean and reliable, and getting 1 Gbit/s without issue.
Another benefit is that I can cram 4 of them inside a single cable runner at the one spot I have to (no space for a switch). Where it's just one cable you run them bare and they look very clean.
The old ones I have are still CAT5e, the newer ones they sell are CAT6 at the same thinness. All unshielded (UTP).
10/10 would buy again.
Patch cables are meant for connections between equipment, e.g. in a networking cabinet. Cable for the runs between terminal points (like the cabinet's patch panel and a workstation, or your home TV, etc.) is less flexible - more shielded and I think solid core instead of multi-stranded (like twin & Earth vs. flex) - I'm not sure if it's available flat or skinny though.
Patch cables, per the spec are twisted copper pairs not to exceed 15 feet, usually stranded copper if you’re using cheaper options.
Horizontal cabling, from the panel to the jack, is up to I think 350’ of solid core twisted pair.
5e gets you gigabit if it’s done right end to end.
I know and agree. My point is in a home setting at 1 Gigabit you don't really need it. Obviously YMMV.
Thanks
Here is a link for others who want to know how thin:
https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/accessories-cables-dacs/...
Rental or do you own?
If you own, you should replace and/or move them. Might sound scary if you've never done this before but it is much easier than you'd think. If you want to make your future life easier I suggest running a PVC pipe (at minimum in the drop down portion). Replacing or adding new cabling will be much easier if you do this so it's totally worth the few extra bucks and few extra minutes of work. They'll also be less likely to be accidentally damaged (stepping on them, rodents, water damage, etc). I seriously cannot understand why this is not more common practice (leave the pull string in). You might save a few bucks but you sacrifice a lot more than you're saving... (chasing pennies with pounds)
If rental, you could put in an extender. If you're less concerned about aesthetics you can pop the wall place off and directly tie into the existing cable OR run a new one in parallel. If you're willing to donate the replacement wire and don't have access to the attic but do to both ends of the existing cable then you can use one to pull the other through. You could coil the excess wire behind the plate when you reinstall it. But that definitely runs the risk of losing the cable since it might be navigating through a hard corner. If you go that route I'd suggest just asking your landlord. They'd probably be chill about it and might even pay for it.
There are times I do envy people living in stick houses with hollow walls.
I live in a brick house where only half of the walls are hollow. Bringing Ethernet wires to a few critical areas and putting small surface-mount RJ-45 sockets was not that hard.
Of course, some thin raceways can be seen somewhere along the baseboard. It does not look terrible, and is barely noticeable.
Fibre is good for getting to hard-to-reach places.
But the slope is slippery. If you’re doing fibre, you might as well do 10gbe.
Stick houses with hollow walls are cheaper to build (assuming cheap wood) and cheaper to work on. Probably cheaper to maintain too, but not as durable, so it might work out... Otoh, durable isn't great when housing trends have moved on.
Much more durable in an earthquake though, which is important in places like the US where half the country is a serious seismic hazard zone. In many locales only wood or steel framing is allowed because historically stone and concrete construction collapsed due to the strength of the earthquakes.
> not as durable
Your clearly don’t live in an earthquake prone area.
I do. But given how cheapskate New Zealand is, I’m 100% sure that we would build in stone and brick if it was cheaper.
I do live on the west coast of the US. Unreinforced masonry doesn't do well in earthquakes, but reinforced masonry or concrete is probably more durable. I've got 25 year old wood siding, and it might make it to 30, but there's no way it'll be in reasonable shape at 40. It probably won't be too expensive to replace though.
Probably another great example of chasing pennies with pounds. {re,green,pink}bar is really cheap. Yes, it's more expensive but only 10-20% more. It's an upfront cost that that saves you tons of damage, which costs money too! Even more when you put off repair.
It's incredible how people do not understand boot theory... which seems to be something most people know but don't employ in practice
My wood siding is original cedar that has been painted several times since 1970s when house was built … I haven’t considered it not lasting indefinitely
Molding is your friend to create and hide channels, and it will make your place look more sophisticated than just the cube cave it is, my cave man friend.
> If you want to make your future life easier I suggest running a PVC pipe (at minimum in the drop down portion). Replacing or adding new cabling will be much easier if you do this so it's totally worth the few extra bucks and few extra minutes of work.
I’m trying to understand how removing an entire sheet of gypsum (or cutting a 6” by 8’ channel) and installing an empty PVC raceway is ‘a few extra minutes of work’. Installing the PVC might be, but you’re looking at hours of work over multiple days to replace the drywall and refinish the wall.
Raceways are unnecessary in stick built houses if you have a fish stick and fish tape. If you’re building a new house, then sure, install 1” EMT as raceway for Cat6A before putting up the drywall.
> I’m trying to understand how removing an entire sheet of gypsum
> Raceways are unnecessary in stick built houses
The conduit makes all that easier, and provides the additional protection that I discussed. By having a conduit you're far less likely to get snagged on something while fishing the lines. You can stop hard corners that strip your cables while pulling on them. It's also a million times easier to see while you're chasing those cables. Sure, your house is a framing with wood but you still have insulation and who likes icy hands?
Really, think about it. What is the cost now compared to the future?
Is an additional 10 or let's even say a crazy 50% additional work now really that costly when you have to do the whole thing again in the future? And multiple times? It's a no brainier lol. Definition of chasing pennies with pounds. Just be nice to your future self. Be lazy long term, not lazy short term because lazy short term requires more work
You can lay your own cables, either to the next wall socket or directly to a switch. Flat ethernet cables can be very helpful for hiding and for crossing doorways. Generous "unnecessary" wire length helps with keeping them out of sight.
Just want to second your suggestion about flat cables. They are great for situations as this.
I’m in an old stone house and currently have flat cables snaked around until I can piggy back on the workers putting in conduit for other things.
> The house I live in was built with ethernet, but of the fourteen outlets the builders saw fit to include, not one is located where we can make use of it.
I had a similar situation a few years back. It was a rental so I didn't have access to the attic let alone permission to do my own drops. It'll depend a _lot_ on your exact setup, but we had reasonably good results with some ethernet-over-power adapters.
Ethernet of powerline adapters a very YMMV situation. Occasionally, it works great for people, but more often than not, the performance is poor and/or unreliable, especially in countries with split-phase 120/240 volt power (where good performance relies on choosing outlets with hots on the same side of the center-tapped neutral. The people who most commonly share success stories with powerline Ethernet are residents of the UK, where houses only have 2 wires coming in from the pole and there's often a ring main system where an entire floor of a house will be on one circuit.
A better solution is repurposing unused 75Ω coaxial cable with MoCA 2.5 adapters, which will actually give you 1+ Gbps symmetrical. The latency is a very consistent 3-4ms, which is negligible. I use Screenbeam (formerly Actiontek) ECB6250 adapters, though they now make a new model, ECB7250, which is identical to the ECB6250 except with 2.5GBASE-T ports instead of 1000BASE-T.
> A better solution is repurposing unused 75Ω coaxial cable with MoCA 2.5 adapters
I'll second this. MoCA works. You can get MoCA adapters off Ebay or whatnot for cheap: look for Frontier branded FCA252. ~90 MBps with a 1000BASE-T switch in the loop. I see ~3 ms of added latency. I've made point-to-point links exclusively, as opposed to using splitters and putting >2 MoCA adapters on shared medium, but that is supported as well.
That was my experience too. The experience with powerline ethernet adapters was unbearable on a daily basis.
We had an unused coax (which we disconnected from the outside world) and used MoCA adapters (actiontek) and it's been consistently great/stable. No issues ever... for years.
We have them at home as well and they really suck. They lose connection every 20ish minutes at best, and take about 5 to reconnect. Makes Zoom meetings impossible, among other things.
I used those during covid to get a reliable connection for video calls and it was a huge step up over wifi. The bandwidth was like 1/10th of actual gige, so I got a wire pulled to my office when I went to fibre but there’s no question in my mind that decent powerline adaptors are the winner for connection stability.
I’ve used Ethernet over coax in my current apartment.
It’s worked well!
You do need to be a bit careful as coax signal can be shared with neighbors and others sometimes.
You can isolate your ethernet over coax from your neighbor with a MoCA POE "point of entry" filter which blocks the frequencies used by MoCA.
You can buy them online for around $10 and they install without tools,
Besides neighbors, you may also need a POE filter if you have certain types of cable modem.
For PoE you want two networks for the best performance. One for each phase of your mains.
In general they do suck, but they can be pretty decent if you stick them all on one phase, even better if all on the same breaker.
Powerline Ethernet != PoE (power over Ethernet)
Yes, no idea what I was thinking when I typed that. I've used both extensively, in fact this message was sent over a PoE enabled WiFi AP.