Croatian freediver held breath for 29 minutes
divernet.com298 points by toomanyrichies 2 days ago
298 points by toomanyrichies 2 days ago
Note this is oxygen assisted - the diver breathed pure oxygen and (from the article) can increase available oxygen from 450mL to 3L in doing so.
Still impressive nonetheless and I didn't know that this trick is sometimes used in Hollywood to extend underwater filming time. Avatar 2 comes to mind when I was impressed to find out Sigourney Weaver trained to hold her breath for 6 and half minutes in her 70s!
Coming back to the article, I'm disappointed that the details were sparse - how do they check whether the contestant is conscious? How does the contestant know what his limits are before passing out?
> Sigourney Weaver trained to hold her breath for 6 and half minutes in her 70s!
That is crazy. It seems Kate Winslet broke Tom Cruise's old record while filming Avatar 2; over 7 minutes(!) in her case:
https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/kate-winslet-beat...
This is nuts. I remember reading that Hollywood gave up on underwater filming after near death accidents on sets of The Abyss and especially Waterworld making such productions too risky and expensive so they resorted to VFX faking long underwater scenes after that. Obliviously Cameron didn't get the memo.
James Cameron, maker of The Abyss, probably got the memo. But the memo read “You’re going to need to make much more successful movies before they let you do that again.”
James Cameron is considered a subject matter expert on deep sea submersibles.
Which a bunch of people found out as soon as they started bitching about why some random Hollywood asshole was commenting on the Oceangate disaster.
If anyone can manage underwater filming safely it's probably him.
He has also confessed that his ulterior motive for making Titanic was to get a studio to pay for an expedition to the Titanic. Which they did.
James Cameron has done a huge number of truly amazing things, but he and Ed Harris both nearly drowned during filming of The Abyss. Hopefully he learned from his mistakes.
[1] https://collider.com/james-cameron-the-abyss-movie-productio...
Yeah not to say some of his knowledge isn’t hard won. Niels Bohr approved.
Looks like in Cameron’s case it was a double fault situation. No alarm on the primary, and the safety person didn’t check his emergency gear. That guy shouldn’t have been punched he should have been fired. And had his license suspended.
Your username is great.
Thankyou! The advantage of having been around a long time: short great usernames were still available!
These actors and actresses don't have to do it, are well compensated for the risk, and likely sign the most air tight waiver that can ever be forged.
> ..near death accidents on sets of The Abyss
What a great movie that is! Who can forget that rat breathing liquid oxygen (or whatever they called it), and the water creature making her face to say hello. It seems sort of forgotten now (perhaps it's just me?) compared to other good films from the same era.
> Who can forget that rat breathing liquid oxygen (or whatever they called it)
I remember seeing the movie as a child with my parents and I was quite appaled by that scene (I hate seeing animal abuse). My father ensured me that was just some kind of effect trickery (I think he believed so himself). Later I found out that it was indeed real.
The liquid is called fluorocarbon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing#Films_and_tel...
Whoever wrote the production portion of the wikipedia page for the Abyss did a really good job capturing the sort of bleak "the best way out of this situation is forward" circumstances that arise from taking on a project at the limit of your capability like that.
Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio has a great line: "'The Abyss' was a lot of things. Fun to make was not one of them."
To answer your questions:
- A coach / safety will give a signal to the athlete, e.g. pinching of the arm and the athlete will react to it by e.g. lifting a finger.
- Training. You get to know your body and limits very well when training freediving for a longer time. That does not mean that you always avoid blackouts, particularly in competitions they happen but that's what safeties are for. In the end, a free diving competition is one of the safest places to explore your limits.
I've seen people react so instinctively to tap-out signals both in martial arts and sometimes outside of it that I've often wondered if you could fight dirty in a real fight by tapping out and then clocking them or at least breaking a hold during that instant where they start to back off.
I think I have used it successfully both in chiropractic and physical therapy contexts. The thing with really top-shelf pain is that if you're not screaming you can't even talk at all. But your hands still work.
These sorts of little reflexive physical communications are super effective.
For sure - what I find interesting is that passing out is a disqualification (I assume) so there is a fine line between achieving your utmost limit and being disqualified. Which is like most sports but my understanding is that it is quite easy to accidentally slip under so the guy must have incredible body awareness
Correct. Usually you need to perform a so called surface protocol after surfacing to show you are still conscious enough. This can be e.g. the removal of your mask, an OK sign and saying "I'm OK". Only if you do that within 15 seconds after surfacing your performance will be valid.
And regarding easy to blackout. Yes and no, I personally avoided it for over 12 years, but then again, I'm no world class athlete and only an enthusiastic hobbyist.
In a documentary about freediving they explained that during competitions there are strict rules and steps for the diver to follow after they emerge from the water surface. Only when followed the dive is considered ok.
> how do they check whether the contestant is conscious?
already answered but they'll apply pressure on your hand (or similar) and you need to apply pressure back
> How does the contestant know what his limits are before passing out?
When you hold breath for a long time your body will have muscle contractions. The time that needs to pass for each contraction to happen varies from person to person but it is quite consistent for each person. So free divers can know that they are good up to X contractions which will take after X minutes in certain conditions. The fun part is you can train to experience your first contraction by holding your breath while laying down in bed.
I think this is a self selection bias.
In a group sport like club cycling, it can be everyone's responsibility to make sure that your fellow riders haven't gone either hypoglycemic or into heat stroke. We all watch each other so we can go a bit harder and the people who can still talk keep tabs on everyone else.
I understand that with submersibles and astronauts there's a bit of this going on as well. Everyone is watching everyone else for nitrogen narcosis or hypoxia. Maybe another reason the Navy doesn't like assholes on submarines. How can I tell if you're being a jerk today or we need to check the CO2 sensors? Better to notice Lieutenant Ivers only gets short with people when his blood ox goes a little south.
If you go to solo walking or running, now you are the only one tracking your mental state. Now you have to use your own judgement to try to detect when your judgement is going away. It's... tough. Personally I think it's easier if you've already had practice on team settings. But it's still tough.
Same thing with alcohol. There's a reason bartenders don't serve drunks. No judgement anymore. You should have put the glass down half a drink ago and had some water instead. And I think you can only learn that safely by slowly sidling up to it from the safe side, and have someone to look after you if you go a little fuzzy.
It’s a classic at this point but David Blaine held the record for a while and gave a fantastic TED talk on his process: https://www.ted.com/talks/david_blaine_how_i_held_my_breath_...
Another factor is that it's easier to do it underwater than on land. The mammalian diving reflex is what helps.
That's 29min 4sec after breathing pure oxygen.
The record for regular air is 11min 35sec.
Pretty impressive either way.
When I was a kid in the 70s, I think the record was somewhere in the neighborhood of 3–5 minutes (maybe seven?) and we used to think that was such a short time that we could do it and then trying in the backyard bucket pools that were endemic in my neighborhood we found that cracking a minute was enough of a challenge.
At first.
I was also a kid doing this, my cousins and I held ourselves underwater with the ladder rungs in a swimming pool.
At first, yeah a minute was tough. But then it rapidly increased. Unfortunately I don't remember where we topped out, but I think ~3 minutes.
We would also swim pool lengths underwater(but it was a relatively small pool at a condo building). I think I swam 9 once.
They'd let us stay out all night at that pool, it was great. Florida summers don't really get chilly.
Such contests are more dangerous than they first appear: Many kids will grasp the obvious trick of hyperventilating to improve their time, but that can lead to abrupt unconsciousness and drowning.
I know that now, and I would prevent any kids from breath-holding contests.
But I didn't at 14 years old, nor did my mom or uncle, apparently.
I imagine a safe version could be made... that would suck all the direct-competition spontaneity out of it. Like "do it on land", or "only in standing-height water and take turns with someone timing and acting as a spotter."
Funny, I did exactly the same things in my childhood, in my cousin's pool.
But it was on the other side of the pond!
As a teenager I did about 4.5 minutes, as I recall, in a bucket of water. I played the trumpet quite a bit at the time, so I think my capacity was above average. It was a competition and I got first, and the second place fellow was also a trumpet player.
All three of us trumpet players in my middle school band would sit in the back and have breath holding contests while the director was working with other sections or whatever.
In middle school, I was a swimmer on two teams and played trombone. We had a fun little “who can play the longest note” contest…everyone thought I cheated because I lasted about 30 seconds longer than anyone else. Really wasn’t that hard once you find the right position to use minimal air output, since the game wasn’t who could hold the same note, but any note. We regularly trained on the swim team to go as far as possible underwater in an Olympic pool — record on our team was 4 or 5 round-trips if I recall correctly (can’t remember 100%…long ago…but that kid was crazy in both speed and time underwater).
Pretty demoralizing to be labeled a cheater after such hard work expanding lung capacity and efficiency. After that, I wouldn’t even try anymore just so I wouldn’t be called a cheater again. Quit band the next year.
I wonder if circular breathing would work, or works, for trombone. If so you could have held that note "forever" with some training.
It would, which was exactly what I was accused of but wasn’t something I knew how to do…even to this day. I have an idea of the mechanics, I just lack the ability because it has never been something I’ve practiced or developed.
It should given that it works with trumpet (and even voice). I remember listening to some jazz piece on the radio where the DJ, before the song, alerted listeners to the long note that was being held and suggested trying holding your breath for the length of the note (but not—he warned—if you were driving).
I could do 3 minutes pretty easily as a kid, again, sitting in class like another poster. Maybe we had the same boring classes.
I once held my breath for 5 minutes when I was 14, sitting in class. I suppose it’s possible I was accidentally breathing through my nose a little as I wasn’t underwater.
Glad I'm not the only one who was bored enough in class to do this.
From my experience, holding your breath in air and in water are totally different things. I guess, because it is difficult to stop any intake of air when you are in air.
Amazingly so Stephane Mifsud's 11:35 "regular air" WR apnea was set in 2009 and has stood since (at least as far as AIDA is concerned). There was a lot of speculation online back then as it is an extraordinary time and was quite high compared to the previous record. If I recall correctly the hold was performed at his home pool, and he has a lung capacity almost double the average adult male's.
This is a video of the end of Mifsud's 11:35 breath hold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHPGKb7ipgc . The protocol after the hold is that you have to take off your goggles/mask and noseclip, look at the judges and do a clear hand signal that you're ok. Your chin/face should not touch the water before you get a reply from the judges, in the form of a card. It's nothing short of amazing how clearly he follows protocol given that his brain has been oxygen deprived for more than 11 minutes.
We train for surface protocol to become automatic, so even depraved of oxygen, it becomes a reflex. It does a big difference, you'd be surprised to see how many ppl blackout when surfacing because they exhale too much first :/
Regarding Mifsud, he had a YouTube channel, in French, which is full of information about freediving ! He worked a lot with scientists to understand how his body work and how to reach this world record. Also he confessed that he does not have spams when holding breath, so it helps a bit.
I somehow thought that pure oxygen was poisonous[1], and it needed to be a nitrogen mix. I mean, I guess this stunt demonstrates that I'm clearly mistaken, or that the nuance is in the pressures involed?
There's definitely nuance here.
Pure oxygen puts oxidative stress on your cells. Your body can handle that just fine at 1 atm, but at elevated partial pressures the increased concentration will (quickly) overwhelm your cellular mechanics.
Underwater, the maximum operating depth for 100% O2 is 6 meters (20 feet) - which isn't very much at all. If you dive any deeper than that, you'll be at severe risk for a seizure and unconsciousness, and likely drown. (I'm simplifying, see [1].)
Which is why you don't go diving with pure O2.
However, in this case the freediver wouldn't be breathing compressed O2 gas underwater. They would've been breathing it at the surface, at 1 atm.
Oxygen weathering is a primary constraint on life on Earth, and every carbon-hydrogen based organism in the past 2.5 billion years has had to develop biochemical coping mechanisms for this toxic gas that wants to react with carbon and with hydrogen; It is harnessing this reaction ("respiration") with biologically mediated processes and modulating it to specific rates that permits us life.
For humans, acute breathing gas toxicity only happens in a high pressure environment.
Air approximates an 80/20 nitrogen-oxygen mix. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi.
The 120psi air compressor in your auto body shop is equivalent to a dive only 81 meters deep. SCUBA divers and later saturation divers have probed the various limits of the human cardiopulmonary system using very specialized gas blends all the way down to 700 meters. Too much oxygen partial pressure causes all the symptoms you see listed, and higher partial pressures cause symptoms to appear faster.
> The curves show typical decrement in lung vital capacity when breathing oxygen. Lambertsen concluded in 1987 that 0.5 bar (50 kPa) could be tolerated indefinitely.
This means you could breath 80/20 nitrox at 2.5 bar, or 37 psi, or 25 meters depth, "indefinitely" in the sense of hours or days.
PS: Chronic use of 100% oxygen at atmospheric pressure causes other types of toxicity. Some of the oxidative damage therein, accumulated over the years at a normal 20%, probably directly analogizes parts of the human aging process. Other types of oxidative damage probably work faster than proportional exposure. We only start to notice damage like this in people with impaired lung function who rely on an artificial supply of oxygen boosted to beyond an 80/20 ratio, to breath.
To add to this, when diving with compressed air most people get woozy and otherwise intoxicated from oxygen around 30 meters from the surface. For some people 25 meters is enough for such symptoms to occur.
Diving on normal air, oxygen toxicity occurs around 60m.
Are you sure you aren't talking about Nitrogen narcosis ('raptures of the deep')?
Yes, he is. Oxygen toxicity causes seizures, not narcosis, and kicks in at around 1.6 bar of partial pressure (just below 65 m when breathing 21% oxygen as in regular air). PADI uses 1.4 bar to add an extra safety margin.
Oxygen toxicity is really the one thing in recreational diving that will kill you if you do it wrong, though for recreational divers the risk only exists when using enriched air(*).
Fortunately it's trivial to avoid it by only using enriched air where the sea floor is at a safe depth, but you should know the math nevertheless. For example if the sea floor is at 35 m (4.5 bar) you won't enrich air above 1.4/4.5=31% oxygen, probably more like 28%.
Oxygen toxicity is also the (or the main) reason why enriched air must never be stored in white or yellow bottles. If you see yellow you can assume it's 21%, while for any other color you must use an oxymeter before using it. Not doing so can be literally the difference between life and death.
Scuba diving is safe but a lot of the safety is about procedures, as you can see.
(*) Enriching air above 21% oxygen is done to avoid the other issue with nitrogen, which is decompression sickness. It lets you stay longer on the bottom. In other words, enriched air improves the trade-off between bottom time (limited by nitrogen) and maximum depth (limited by oxygen toxicity).
Got the symptoms wrong, but oxygen toxicity is also present from 25 meters down.
Not with 21% oxygen. 25 meters is 3.5*0.21=0.73 bar of O2 partial pressure, which is within even the strictest limits that apply to rebreathers (1.3 bar).
If you're breathing 100% oxygen for decompression, that's a completely different story and not something a recreational divers will do.
Have you got a reference for that?
I don't see any thing that supports "when diving with compressed air most people get woozy and otherwise intoxicated from oxygen around 30 meters from the surface".