How to win an argument with a toddler
seths.blog711 points by herbertl 4 days ago
711 points by herbertl 4 days ago
Oddly, I thought this discussion would be about actual toddlers.
There is a way to win an argument with a toddler. You find out what's bothering them, usually something emotional, and you validate it. "Yes! It's fun to stay up late! Yes! You don't want to eat your vegetables!" Once they feel heard, you've got a shot at getting them to do what you want.
That's a good way to win an argument with a non-toddler as well. Acknowledge that what they want is legitimate (if it is). Concede points of agreement. Talk about shared goals. Only then talk about a different path to the solution.
> find out what's bothering them, usually something emotional, and you validate it
This is a common refrain of counselors and the field of psychology in general, and yet I can't help but think there's some selection bias at play with regard to the type of personality that is likely to recommend this approach as advice and how well the advice actually works.
Personally speaking, I've never cared whether someone "validates" my emotions (and I often view such attempts as a bit patronizing or insincere). There's a problem to be solved, so let's attempt to solve it or at least compromise in good faith. The resolution to the problem is the most likely way to elicit positive emotions from me anyway.
(I do understand however that some people prefer this validation, and if that's what they want, then sure, I'll attempt to do that.)
>Personally speaking, I've never cared whether someone "validates" my emotions (and I often view such attempts as a bit patronizing or insincere). There's a problem to be solved, so let's attempt to solve it or at least compromise in good faith. The resolution to the problem is the most likely way to elicit positive emotions from me anyway.
I assume ads don't work on you either, right? You buy purely based on a logical calculus of requirements and whether a product is fit-for-purpose. I assume the obverse must also be true; if they invalidate your emotions it doesn't affect you either?
Imagine you lose your parking receipt and have to pay for the whole day. An attendant that says: "You were stupid for losing your ticket. It says in 1-ft letters at the entrance 'lost tickets pay full day.' We don't make exceptions for people that can't keep track of their stuff."
vs
"Damn dude, that sucks. You're not the only one today -- previous woman had her wallet stolen as well. Sorry I can't help, boss doesn't let me make exceptions"
Of course people validate other's emotions. You are affected by it. You only notice when someone does it poorly. Your perception of whether an exchange in which you had to compromise went well or not is highly colored by the attitude and "fluff" that the other person presented.
Funny thing is, the detection of any preference, for anything, is a readout of an emotional response.
People with brain injuries impacting emotional centers are unable to make any kind of choice and therefore don’t know what to calculate for.
https://youtu.be/T46bSyh0xc0?si=pX04LLKwMQuMtnH_
Mentioned at about 90seconds in of this lecture by George Lakoff.
I like to say that emotions are, roughly, the fitness function of our non-machine learning
Ads work on you? A serious question.
They ellicit so much immediate mental resistance on my side (coupled with ads-free life mostly via Firefox & ublock origin that propagates way beyond just blocks of static ads, ie no youtube ads at all) that any of those rare times I experience them, I add some small amount of hate towards given brand & product.
Somehow, brands that invest heavily in pushy ads tend not to be my main focus anyway so google et al just keep missing badly with me.
Something about preserving moral integrity, not subject to external manipulation etc. Subtle but powerful aspects of existence
> Ads work on you? A serious question. They ellicit so much immediate mental resistance on my side
The ads that work on folks like you are almost certainly the ones that you don’t notice or maybe barely notice.
This is fantastically difficult to prove without a fairly invasive tracking of someone’s life over time.
That said, really good mentalists are masters of this type of shaping of one’s thinking — Derren Brown has videos on this.
I think you still need to be open to the product they are selling.
I always buy soda in this order: Cherry Dr Pepper, Dr Pepper, Cherry Coke, Coke, something with a fake grape flavour, maybe something else if none of those exist or water.
People have tried to convince me that soda ads work on me but my receipts say otherwise.
If you were advertising new chip flavours. Yeah, I’d try that at least once.
> I think you still need to be open to the product they are selling.
Generally speaking, yes.
That said, many people spend money or will spend money on things that aren’t for themselves.
> I always buy soda in this order: Cherry Dr Pepper, Dr Pepper, Cherry Coke, Coke, something with a fake grape flavour, maybe something else if none of those exist or water.
If this is your list, then (most) ads for sodas aren’t targeting you to buy sodas for yourself.
Every ad doesn’t need to address every viewer of the ad, nor should it.
Additionally, converting a viewer to a direct sale is not always the goal of an ad. Moving someone from a “cold lead” to a “warm lead” (e.g., through brand recognition, brand identity, etc.) are frequently the main goal of a given ad or ad campaign, especially ads that aren’t super targeted.
If this is your list, then (most) ads for sodas aren’t targeting you to buy sodas for yourself.
Ok. But if I’m buying for someone else, I’m asking them what to buy.
Left to my own devices I will never buy “off list” except if I come across some weird thing that I’ve never heard of.
In this way, these ads “don’t work on me.”
Do you have and maintain these lists for all product categories you buy regularly? A well-maintained ordering of product options for most of these groups would be highly impressive and certainly make you more resistant, but I doubt the extra effort would be really worth it to most.