What Your Sleep Tracker Gets Wrong About Sleep
affectablesleep.com39 points by pedalpete 8 days ago
39 points by pedalpete 8 days ago
The article dismisses sleep duration and regularity as weak indicators of quality, and I’d say that’s true - for one night of sleep considered alone.
However so many don’t have a sleep routine at all, and can benefit from simple starting measures like gamifying sleep duration and timeliness. Hence the sleep trackers on the market cater to “sleep quality novices”.
Once you’re no longer a novice then for sure start tweaking, like the author seeks to do.
But so many are just start of the journey and the author - no doubt way further down the road - might’ve forgotten how hard it is to get a good night’s sleep when you block any hope of a routine with alcohol, late nights out, late night coding binges, and early morning starts for run club.
It’s horses for courses. Considering how few “advanced” sleep trackers exist for consumers it’s likely hard to get quality data and not a lot of people know they’re ready for the next level. May their product find its niche!
This is a good point, I am the author.
You're right that many people would benefit from a regular schedule, and I wrote a blog post a few weeks ago which talked about why it's important to focus on wake time instead of bed time - which is the common advice.
We're really trying to focus on changing the story of sleep. You say most people don't have a consistent bedtime, but people are creatures of habit, so you'd probably be surprised how many people have good hygiene but still don't feel their sleep is restorative enough.
Thanks for the comment on finding our niche specifically. We're not aiming to be for everyone (yet).
I've kept a sleep schedule for at least since high school. Always in bed with enough landing space at the end in case my body needed 7 hours instead of usual 6.
My body has long since gotten used to feeling sleep time arrive, and starts unwinding naturally. My brain also followed suit. No going to bed and waiting for the thoughts to run out. I'm usually asleep in less than a minute after hitting the bed.
I always set my alarm as a back up, but I was usually awake before it went off. Return to wakefulness and not groggy is also very fast; 5 minutes or so and I am ready to go.
My girlfriend suffered from pushing into late nights and getting in one more chapter of a book or what have you when we met. I got her onto a schedule and she's now like me. Body and mind tired at an early hour, mind clear of thoughts after lights out. Fast to fall asleep and stay there, deep sleeps every night.
There's a few other things I do to prepare for bed. No caffeine for a few hours prior, no alcohol. If I need a snack, then some vegetables instead of junk food. That slice of pizza might be tasty, but 100% it will interfere with my sleep in some way.
My bedroom is very dark. Almost no light leakage from the windows, no LED's, no tv set.
I always thought it was strange for people to active shaft themselves with poor sleeping habits, day after day for decades on end.
Try having kids, shift work, or just be older than 40.
Your sleep naturally declines as you age, and though sleep time declines, the more detrimental factor is the lack of slow-wave delta activity. Your brain literally gets worse at the restorative function that is vital to sleep.
I've recently been on a five week streak of 100% sleep scores on my Whoop (couple days of 98%) by "volume" sleeping at consistent times. The five week streak started on the day we came home with our second child and we changed our sleep routine.
Me, my wife, my 2.5 yo, and newborn all get into bed (or bassinet) at 8 PM. From 8 - 9 PM we're juggling feeding newborn, reading to toddler, and signing toddler to sleep in whatever order is necessary for that night. Then we sleep around 9 PM till 7 AM with multiple wake ups for diaper changes in the night.
As the newborns gotten longer stretches of sleep, so have I and I can tell my sleep quality is better. I do see significantly higher REM/SWS times on a night where I do one diaper change versus 4 like the first week.
Subjectively, my sleep quality is bad - I feel tired but way less tired than with my first when I didn't try and "volume sleep". But my Whoop is happy to hand out 100% score because I've gamed the system with an insane amount of hours.
Given the circumstances, I'm sleeping as well as anyone could hope. And there might be some value in just "being in bed" longer if you can't guarantee sleep quality. I know I'm way less tired than I was with my first.
That's very impressive for a new father! Congratulations!
How's your wife's sleep going? Mothers get considerably less sleep than fathers, even with school aged kids.
The subjective feeling is the result of broken sleep and likely the resulting lack of slow-wave power. Your wife may have this worse than you, as it is theorized that there is an evolutionary throwback where mothers have increased cortisol due to needing to be aware to take care of the baby. I haven't seen research in this, but many mothers have said they just felt "on edge" for the first few years.
There is some value probably to "being in bed" longer, Huberman talks about this a bit with reference to his "non-sleep deep rest".
However, our focus is on ensuring the sleep you get is as restorative as possible, even for new parents.
Her sleep is terrible since she's breastfeeding, so even when she does get some sleep, it'll be while dozing off in some unexpected and ergonomically diabolical position.
For our first baby, I had that on-edge feeling, I woke at every hint of a cry but this time I can just sleep through it and rely on my wife letting me know if I'm needed. It's not fair but it means at least one of us has the emotional resilience to deal with our toddler during the day :)
A headband that detects deep sleep via ECG, emitting sounds that hopefully cause positive effects. Cites studies I haven't looked at. No pricing yet; still in pre-production and testing. Might be something to give a go if it is cheap enough, or if it becomes popular and cheap clones appear on the market, or are desperate.
Thanks. We're EEG, not ECG. We only show a few studies on the website, however there is over a decade of research in slow-wave enhancement, which is what our stimulation protocol is based upon.
This would be a godsend to if it works in a non-clinical setting!
I always wake up after 3-5 hours of sleep, and I usually can't get back to sleep during the night. According to Fitbit sleep monitoring even in those few hours, I don't get much deep sleep. Needless to say I am very fatigued during the day. If it wasn't for sleep medication I would be a complete wreck.
Most of our use is non-clinical (I'm the founder). Our devices are being used in research, but that is both in lab and in home.
I metrics fetish might be quite widespread. Why would anyone need an app to tell them how well they've slept? I can feel how well I've slept when I wake up.
But this can be used to great effect. Make an argument and people will agree or disagree based on their beliefs and feelings towards you.
Draw some graphs and most will go with whatever you want them to agree with.
Considered making one into a headband + chinstrap for your cpap users who already use a chin strap?
Then we can replace the chin strap part regularly as it wears out.
I’ve seen a few people on the cpap forum that wear the full ecg skull cap for data recording.
I think you mean EEG, not ECG.
Our first product won't be focused on CPAP users, but we're based in Sydney, Australia, which is the home of ResMed, so have a few contacts there. It's not an area we'd look at going into on our own.
My mistake. EEG.
https://www.apneaboard.com/forums/ May be worth posting over there too. 112k members and many interested in logging their cpap data with OSCAR. Trying whatever they can to improve sleep.
Some of my college friends created a skullcap wheelchair controller application using only the brain so the options are very open. Good luck.
Wearing a headband along with CPAP would be a challenge, though we are having a few people that want to try it. I'll keep that in mind in the future.
Thanks
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